calling an all in with nut flush draw.

Hi everyone;
I havn't posted on here for a while as I havn't been playing for a while but I found myself playing a live tourney the other day with a £200 buy in; here is the story.
blinds are 150-300
ante 50
my stack 30000 i've played reasonably well and have gained 10000 from a starting stack of 20000.

Player in utg +1 raises to 650 (has stack of around 30000) I look down at A3c in position and decide to call, the BB calls as well (50k stack chip leader). All other players fold.
Flop comes 6h 4c 2c.
BB checks
Original raiser raises again 2000 however I love this flop and reraise 6k (2 ways to win right?). BB then goes all in for the full 50k, so pot is around 60k.

I would value your opinions on how you would respond to this and what your play would be. Thanks all for all your help and opinions

Easy fold.

You still have ~80 BBs behind and aren't getting the odds to call here.

I would call there are many outs - streetflushdraw-chipleader if he had really strong hand,to my opinion, would call to get more chips from you in the end-if he went all-in it's sqeeze-I think so!

You're a slight favorite unless someone has aces. I don't like risking my tournament life on a couple percentage points when I'm not short stacked and desperate. I would have just called UTG's raise and hoped for a 5 or a club or a 5 of clubs before having to commit my stack.

nice replies so far but the BB was going all in even if I had just called UTG's raise then what?

Number one, I wouldn't have raised on a draw. Considering your not sure what to do after the all in raise, you should have considered that before you made yours. After his all in raise I would fold and learn and wait.

cracksniper said:

nice replies so far but the BB was going all in even if I had just called UTG's raise then what?

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Fold.

If I'm short stacked or FT with only 2 or 3 players left then I take the chance. Any other time I want better odds than a coin flip so I fold.

VinnyStrat said:

Fold.

If I'm short stacked or FT with only 2 or 3 players left then I take the chance. Any other time I want better odds than a coin flip so I fold.

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Im with you

Thanks for all the replies ...the consensus seems to be flat to the raiser post flop see a card and fold to the all in. Well what i did was reraise the raiser as stated my thinking is I'm in position the BB has checked showing no strength and i can win this pot with a raise if called i might win anyway if my turn card comes.
I called the all in as i'd put nearly 7k into the pot nearly a 1/3rd of my stack and i still had lots of outs. i didn't hit and went out.

And their`s your answer. :deal:

With a draw flush and a gutshot you have good out, if not eliminated would call but in my opinion not worth it

Depending on his play style over the game I'd probably dump it.

I kinda agree with what most of the people said. It's the right thing to call(mathematically) but you are pointing your whole tournament in danger on a slight edge.
You can go big or go home or just fold and build your stack again as you still have lots of chips.

It's more than just a gut shot straight it's a double gut shot plus a nut flush draw. That's 2 chances to get 15 outs and I'm betting that an ace would take down this pot as well, so make that 18 outs. So you're probably 62% to win this hand, I'm calling. These are the hands you need to take to take a tourney down.

Judging by the drawing you have little fold equity, I see no sense in 3-betting. You can knock out here 55 and 33, sometimes JQ TQ KJ etc. Here you can get all-in, even at the hands of 77, if the opponent is loose or he well knows you. You have a lot of equity on this board. So if you chosen aggression, then you cant throw here.

Thanks for the back up gjwalk and Suzdal, i have been watching u tube on hands like this since. Ross Jarvis pokerstars tutor and professional player says there is no wrong in getting it all in with the nut flush draw as you can hit your out or get them to fold. Aggro is the way so to speak and if called and you hit you get really paid.
He says if you play this passively you will never get called as it's obvious you have made your flush.
Btw the player I called said there was no way he would have thrown my hand away. I know it's a tourney and that it was for my life but how often do you pick up these hands and if I'd have hit I would have had a massive stack and gone through to day 2 easily.

I would favor a fold here as it is still early in the tournament and surviving is more important in this stage then doubling up. If I already knew the players as aggro I would implement pot control on the flop however faced with an all in anyway on the flop I will put in down giving bb credit for set or made straight. Contrary, in ring game I might make the call more often then not and not feel bad about it.

You see the difference is the stake: in ring game it is just a buy in where as in tournament its my tournament life. With still a healthy stack I will walk away and not even feel the tilt.

nice response grinder especially the last paragraph stating the difference between the two games.

Fold... only...

cracksniper said:

Hi everyone;
I havn't posted on here for a while as I havn't been playing for a while but I found myself playing a live tourney the other day with a £200 buy in; here is the story.
blinds are 150-300
ante 50
my stack 30000 i've played reasonably well and have gained 10000 from a starting stack of 20000.

Player in utg +1 raises to 650 (has stack of around 30000) I look down at A3c in position and decide to call, the BB calls as well (50k stack chip leader). All other players fold.
Flop comes 6h 4c 2c.
BB checks
Original raiser raises again 2000 however I love this flop and reraise 6k (2 ways to win right?). BB then goes all in for the full 50k, so pot is around 60k.

I would value your opinions on how you would respond to this and what your play would be. Thanks all for all your help and opinions

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First: one would expect a big hand from UTG although his raise does seem a little light. I don't know if you had 10 or less at your table. 300+150(50x10)=950 (or less if the # of players is less). I expect that the player wanted others to come along. Its a small raise in my opinion but maybe he is trying to keep the pot small.
Second: unless I had a read on the others than this hand is in the muck unless I'm in the money, pot odds or short stacked. These hands only bring trouble.

You called which isn't wrong and the BB came along giving you even better odds on your money. You may have position but you gave away the power of position when you called and didn't re-raise pre-flop. Re-rise and find out where you are and maybe get the BB out. The UTG player makes a standard continuation bet of 2/3 the pot I'm guessing. He may or may not have gotten it. At this pot I'm just calling. Only if I had control and it was checked to me by both players do I raise. If after the shove I'm going to fold. I've lost 1/3 of my stack but still have the chips to battle with in a better situation.

I normally wait to put my chips in the middle with a better chance of winning. Unless I have like 2 or 3 bb and am forced to make a move.

Against a field better than me I would make the call. Against a field worse than me I would fold. No reason to gamble with donks and no reason not to gamble with pros.

Depends how the riggonator is feeling.

gjwalk said:

It's more than just a gut shot straight it's a double gut shot plus a nut flush draw. That's 2 chances to get 15 outs and I'm betting that an ace would take down this pot as well, so make that 18 outs. So you're probably 62% to win this hand, I'm calling. These are the hands you need to take to take a tourney down.

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where do you play? I'm coming right over

cracksniper said:

Well what i did was reraise the raiser as stated my thinking is I'm in position the BB has checked showing no strength and i can win this pot with a raise if called i might win anyway if my turn card comes.
I called the all in as i'd put nearly 7k into the pot nearly a 1/3rd of my stack and i still had lots of outs. i didn't hit and went out.

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What you don't understand here is you given away your positional power by just calling pre-flop. Always go in as the aggressor as much as possible.
BB: He doesn't show weakness by checking after the flop. Many players that have to act first will check blind just so they will see the action. He's already in the hand for pot odds alone. He only had to call another 350 to 1) protect his blind and 2) He's getting 5:1 on his money at least. I'm calling any two from the BB with those odds. I don't even have to look at my cards. The BB shows weakness with his shove. "Why so much?" is what you should ask yourself. He has hit something but he knows he is vulnerable to the redraws. He correctly shoves to make it too expensive to call. So what you put 1/3 of your stack in. You fold then your still in the hunt. Unless I miss something than you have 13 outs. Not bad if your club gets there. If a straight is there then you have to dodge 78 for a higher straight. Less likely but always a possibility. Ax is a dangerous hand to play. Always use a fit or fold mindset when playing and try to play it cheaply. Don't risk your tournament on a draw if at all possible.