Bad decision

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Mikeloti13

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Preflop action.
UTG 20k stack, HERO 51k, CO 100k

UTG limps for 800.
HERO middle position raise 2.2 BB with :kd4::jc4:
CO re raise 2720 and it goes call UTG and call HERO.
Flop comes :qd4::3d4::7h4:
UTG checks, HERO checks, CO checks.
Turn comes :10d4:
UTG checks, HERO raise 3694, CO calls, UTG folds.
River comes :jd4:
HERO raise 7700, CO goes all in, and HERO folds after some time.

I think I made a big mistake considering I was beating 85% of his range. So I think playing this way he had more bluffs than Aces of diamonds. I was leaning toward folding because it was either aces of diamonds or nothing and it was for my tournament life, still had 45 BB after the fold and made a tight one. What do you guys think I should have done? It was with around 400 people left and already in the money
 
elizeuof

elizeuof

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You have some notes of the CO? what are his image on the table?

You are in ITM and left about 45BB to you, in these specific case are not wrong to fold, you will save enough chips to play and try to finish the game in a good position.
 
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fundiver199

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Preflop
When someone has limped, you need to make your open raise much larger than 2,2BB. Otherwise you price in the limper to call with any two cards, and you invite multiway action. My standard size is 4,5BB, unless my stack is very short, which is not the case here. Other people prefer 4BB, and this can also work. Then the big stack makes an undersized 3-bet, and while this is always very annoying, I dont think, you can really do anything other than call with a hand like KJo. Against a normal 3-bet I would fold.

Flop
Check-fold is my plan here, but luckily he checks back and give you a free turn card.

Turn
You picked up the second nut flushdraw and an OESD, and you dont have to much showdown value with K high, so I think, this is a fine semi-bluff. Check-calling would also be an ok option with a draw this good. I think, if UTG had a flush, you would have heard about it, and if CO had a flushdraw, he would probably also have bet it on the flop. So the risk of drawing dead here is very low.

River
You made a flush, and I agree with your decision to bet-fold. You can definitely get value from worse, but when he jam for around 2 x the pot, you dont have to hero call with the very obvious second nuts. You will also have the nuts sometimes, so your range is protected, and he is certainly not giving you a good price. If he bluffed you, then good for him.
 
thehangdude

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Villain came in with a 3bet in position, so that pretty much puts them on Ax or a good pair. What possible hand would they call the turn and shove the river with four diamonds on the board? The :9d4: :9c4:? More likely :ad4: :10c4:
 
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fundiver199

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thehangdude said:
Villain came in with a 3bet in position, so that pretty much puts them on Ax or a good pair. What possible hand would they call the turn and shove the river with four diamonds on the board? The :9d4: :9c4:? More likely :ad4: :10c4:
Click to expand...

:9d4: :9c4: is a good bluff catcher on the river, so calling would be Villains best play. The hands, he could potentially be bluffing with, would be something like :9h4: :9c4: or maybe :js4::kh4:

From a GTO perspective Villain is probably supposed to turn these hands into a bluff, because they are the worst possible hands, he can have, and they are certainly not good enough to call the river bet. But in micro and low stakes tournaments I think, very few players actually do this.
 
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Mikeloti13

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elizeuof said:
You have some notes of the CO? what are his image on the table?

You are in ITM and left about 45BB to you, in these specific case are not wrong to fold, you will save enough chips to play and try to finish the game in a good position.
Click to expand...



Just a few hands before he flatted Jack's in a good position to 3 bet, but I wasn't on the table for long enough to see him engage that much, only a dozen of hands since I sat there. At the time and by how he played it I was sure he had a nut flush so I decided to save a pretty good stack
 
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pablo2020

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It is playing an AA against many players and letting many go to see the flop.
 
elizeuof

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Mikeloti13 said:
Just a few hands before he flatted Jack's in a good position to 3 bet, but I wasn't on the table for long enough to see him engage that much, only a dozen of hands since I sat there. At the time and by how he played it I was sure he had a nut flush so I decided to save a pretty good stack
Click to expand...
It was the best option, when in doubt it is better not to risk it.
 
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Mikeloti13

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fundiver199 said:
Preflop
When someone has limped, you need to make your open raise much larger than 2,2BB. Otherwise you price in the limper to call with any two cards, and you invite multiway action. My standard size is 4,5BB, unless my stack is very short, which is not the case here. Other people prefer 4BB, and this can also work. Then the big stack makes an undersized 3-bet, and while this is always very annoying, I dont think, you can really do anything other than call with a hand like KJo. Against a normal 3-bet I would fold.

Flop
Check-fold is my plan here, but luckily he checks back and give you a free turn card.

Turn
You picked up the second nut flushdraw and an OESD, and you dont have to much showdown value with K high, so I think, this is a fine semi-bluff. Check-calling would also be an ok option with a draw this good. I think, if UTG had a flush, you would have heard about it, and if CO had a flushdraw, he would probably also have bet it on the flop. So the risk of drawing dead here is very low.

River
You made a flush, and I agree with your decision to bet-fold. You can definitely get value from worse, but when he jam for around 2 x the pot, you dont have to hero call with the very obvious second nuts. You will also have the nuts sometimes, so your range is protected, and he is certainly not giving you a good price. If he bluffed you, then good for him.
Click to expand...

Well, here it goes. Since I sat at the table he's been pretty passive. But only about dozen of hands. And one hand he flatted Jack's in a position good for 3 betting. He won that hand againts me and one other player going all in with AK for both of us and JJ for the vilain. It was a bounty tournament, just so you know, so wider ranges in some of these spots. So when he 3 bets there I had him on a pretty strong range. It was weird at the time but didn't have that much info to work with. So I put him on 77+, AJo+ and A10s+. On the flop with that boars he can check AQ but I doubt it, and I doubt he would just call the turn bet if he had AdQ, rather 3 bet it to protect his hand. Maybe I'm wrong. He can float AK with an A of diamonds, and he can do the same with AJ. Aces with an A of diamonds would probably 3 bet turn to protect the hand as well. When the river comes he can only really represent AK and AJ with an A of diamonds. And I think he made a really good play. Still not sure if it was a fold or a call. It was a very specific situation as if maybe he doesn't put me on king high flush but maybe a two pair hand or a straight and wants to get me of that with putting me to a decision for my tournament life as he can easily rep an Ace high flush there, it's certainly in his range. Thank you for your opinion on this, it really helps
 
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Mikeloti13

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thehangdude said:
Villain came in with a 3bet in position, so that pretty much puts them on Ax or a good pair. What possible hand would they call the turn and shove the river with four diamonds on the board? The :9d4: :9c4:? More likely :ad4: :10c4:
Click to expand...

I don't think he has an A10o in his range and if he does he probably 3 bets it on the turn because having an Ace of diamonds in his hand is a great thing to semi bluff there.
 
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fundiver199

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Mikeloti13 said:
It was a very specific situation as if maybe he doesn't put me on king high flush but maybe a two pair hand or a straight and wants to get me of that with putting me to a decision for my tournament life as he can easily rep an Ace high flush there, it's certainly in his range. Thank you for your opinion on this, it really helps
Click to expand...

But its certainly also in your range, when he made an undersized 3-bet and checked back the flop. You are not folding anything, which you open, when he take that line, so as I wrote already, your range is very well protected here. And are you really betting two pair or a straight on the river, when there are 4 diamonds on the board?

Honestly I think, you are just annoyed, because you had to fold the second nuts. But 4 flush boards are very specific and even more so in a 3-bet pot, where AX makes up a lot of ranges. So this is not at all like folding for instance second set or folding KK preflop. There are many ways to have the nuts on this board, and for that reason all other hands tend to shrink.
 
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Mikeloti13

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fundiver199 said:
But its certainly also in your range, when he made an undersized 3-bet and checked back the flop. You are not folding anything, which you open, when he take that line, so as I wrote already, your range is very well protected here. And are you really betting two pair or a straight on the river, when there are 4 diamonds on the board?

Honestly I think, you are just annoyed, because you had to fold the second nuts. But 4 flush boards are very specific and even more so in a 3-bet pot, where AX makes up a lot of ranges. So this is not at all like folding for instance second set or folding KK preflop. There are many ways to have the nuts on this board, and for that reason all other hands tend to shrink.
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Could be the case. At the time I considered it a good decision. And I spent most of my time bank to think through it and be certain in my play. It was only after the tournament I started overthinking it a little bit but still wanted to see if I played it the right way.
 
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I think this is a solid decision and you can find a better spot to get in 40bbs. I don't think this is a bluff on his end often enough to make this a long term profitable call. You will call down the 9 of diamonds periodically, but will be seeing the A much more frequently.
 
makisaa

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It wasn`t so bad decision, because you played your K flush draw and you made it. You could fold in front of the all-in from the CO, but you risked and...the ace flush appears? It is a usual situation, but you played aggresivelly which is not bad!
 
dmt_god

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Mikeloti13 said:
Preflop action.
UTG 20k stack, HERO 51k, CO 100k

UTG limps for 800.
HERO middle position raise 2.2 BB with :kd4::jc4:
CO re raise 2720 and it goes call UTG and call HERO.
Flop comes :qd4::3d4::7h4:
UTG checks, HERO checks, CO checks.
Turn comes :10d4:
UTG checks, HERO raise 3694, CO calls, UTG folds.
River comes :jd4:
HERO raise 7700, CO goes all in, and HERO folds after some time.

I think I made a big mistake considering I was beating 85% of his range. So I think playing this way he had more bluffs than Aces of diamonds. I was leaning toward folding because it was either aces of diamonds or nothing and it was for my tournament life, still had 45 BB after the fold and made a tight one. What do you guys think I should have done? It was with around 400 people left and already in the money
Click to expand...

Yeah, that was not a good decision, but nobody knows if that was made wrong or right. I'd call it and maybe lose my chips, but in my point of view, when the bubble comes and a little bit later everyone is in the money, lots of players start playing more loose. I guess, he did not have an ace, he obviously had some card but it was a jack or lower, maybe an ace. If it was an ace, he got lucky. But in 85% cases he had a lower card and you could win this pot. It's just a variety of coin flip and even poker pros lose a lot of money in the situations like this, so don't worry about it.
 
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