a slow play, a bluff?, and a min raise winner

detroitjunkie

detroitjunkie

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I am not sure if this counts as a bluff or not, thinking not, but I did rep a very strong hand and may actually have been beaten but doubt it.

This hand reps a lot of good things for the newbs to learn; slow play, value raises, raises that induce bluffs - and bad stuff; limping in on the blind, bluff raising (assumingly) into an semi-obvious slow play monster

it worked nicely for future hands because I got the same player to double me up a few hands later (after I lost almost everything i won in that hand with AJ suited vs K9 AI preflop) and left him with under 100 chips....I had 99, he raised with KQ suited and I shoved, he called, I won - may have been a delayed tilt call because it was still 6 handed and still relatively cheap blinds (he had 2046, I had 1963, blinds 75/150)

he was out two hands later - I went on to win the SNG

(if I shove after his first river bet, I think he folds right away, my min raise I believe induced him to 3 bet (bluff?) netting me an extra 468 chips, which in a SNG is huge!))

Regular 9-Max, Table 1 (Hold'em)
Seat 4 is the button
Seat 1: BeatMyWife (1350).
Seat 2: XJ2Dad (2783).
Seat 3: rocman (870).
Seat 4: Tarrget (1320).
Seat 5: rayyyfinkle (2472).
Seat 6: detroitjunkie (1840).
Seat 8: hamboy12 (2865).
Player rayyyfinkle has small blind (25)
Player detroitjunkie has big blind (50)
Player rayyyfinkle received a card.
Player rayyyfinkle received a card.
Player detroitjunkie received card: [2s]
Player detroitjunkie received card: [10s]
Player hamboy12 received a card.
Player hamboy12 received a card.
Player BeatMyWife received a card.
Player BeatMyWife received a card.
Player XJ2Dad received a card.
Player XJ2Dad received a card.
Player rocman received a card.
Player rocman received a card.
Player Tarrget received a card.
Player Tarrget received a card.
Player hamboy12 folds
Player BeatMyWife folds
Player XJ2Dad folds
Player rocman folds
Player Tarrget folds
Player rayyyfinkle calls (25)
Player detroitjunkie checks
*** FLOP ***: [10c 10d Qh]
Player rayyyfinkle checks
Player detroitjunkie checks
*** TURN ***: [10c 10d Qh] [Jh]
Player rayyyfinkle bets (67)
Player detroitjunkie calls (67)
*** RIVER ***: [10c 10d Qh Jh] [6c]
Player rayyyfinkle bets (156)
Player detroitjunkie raises (312)
Player rayyyfinkle raises (624)
Player detroitjunkie raises (936)
Player rayyyfinkle folds
Uncalled bet (468) returned to detroitjunkie
Player detroitjunkie mucks cards
------ Summary ------
Pot: 1794
Board: [10c 10d Qh Jh 6c]
Player BeatMyWife does not show cards.Bets: 0. Collects: 0. Wins: 0.
Player XJ2Dad does not show cards.Bets: 0. Collects: 0. Wins: 0.
Player rocman does not show cards.Bets: 0. Collects: 0. Wins: 0.
Player Tarrget does not show cards.Bets: 0. Collects: 0. Wins: 0.
Player rayyyfinkle does not show cards.Bets: 897. Collects: 0. Loses: 897.
*Player detroitjunkie mucks (does not show cards). Bets: 897. Collects: 1794. Wins: 897.
Player hamboy12 does not show cards.Bets: 0. Collects: 0. Wins: 0.
Game ended at: 2016/5/2 3:17:35
 
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W

WiZZiM

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what is wrong exactly with limping from the small blind?

is this just a brag or something? i dont really get it...
 
detroitjunkie

detroitjunkie

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what is wrong exactly with limping from the small blind?

is this just a brag or something? i dont really get it...

limping in on the small blind with no callers before you is a 0 EV move at best ( a -EV move against players with any skill), and those that do it to me usually end up losing the hand

but that was not the moral of the story, so stop hating, just looking for insight and passing along discussion topics - which apparently you have no ability to take part in
 
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yjt93

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limping in on the small blind with no callers before you is a 0 EV move at best ( a -EV move against players with any skill), and those that do it to me usually end up losing the hand

but that was not the moral of the story, so stop hating, just looking for insight and passing along discussion topics - which apparently you have no ability to take part in

I disagree that limping is 0 EV at best, even though you're out of position, there are still many hands that is better to limp than raise or fold.
 
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WiZZiM

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limping in on the small blind with no callers before you is a 0 EV move at best ( a -EV move against players with any skill), and those that do it to me usually end up losing the hand

but that was not the moral of the story, so stop hating, just looking for insight and passing along discussion topics - which apparently you have no ability to take part in

Not hate here, and im sorry if my post came off as rude. Just wondering what you wanted to get out of this as you ask no questions so it just seems like you want people to congratulate you on a well played hand. Consider constructing your posts differantly and you will get more actual discussion.

Limping from the small blind is certainly not a minus ev play in sng. Against many opponants it can actually be our most plus ev play. Against other players it can obviously be more of a losing one. But if you dont have limping in your arsenal you are sacrificing ev against a wide range of opponants. Quite happy to discuss this one in more detail about the pros and cons of limping in the sb, how to defend your limps vs someone like yourself who will attack them and how to play it postflop.
 
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matt0216

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In the games I play, there's a reg who loves to limp his sb when I'm in the bb. Pretty sure he owns me :(
 
detroitjunkie

detroitjunkie

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my issue with the limping is if no one else has acted behind you, because a lot of the better players in the BB here will just blind raise, or autobet/raise the flop if no ace or king - then what do you do. (the fact that I checked on the flop may have cost me some value - not sure, and the reason I didnt blind raise was because i wasnt payng attention) its just not a good habit to get into - as a whole, if there are other players who have limped in then yea - like it about 1/3 of the time with any 2 cards - but need 2 or more ish to come along before you....the better move would be a blind raise from the LB and try to steal - much more effective - especially closer to a bubble - otherwise Im folding with average hand or lower

and sorry for not wording it the right way - I was hoping my speculation would come across as what could be discussed - was my bet a bluff? was he bluffing on his raise, possible delayed tilt, could i get more value or less by going AI at any point, etc...
 
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Everybodylovesdeuces

Everybodylovesdeuces

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In the games I play, there's a reg who loves to limp his sb when I'm in the bb. Pretty sure he owns me :(

Matt, have you tried raising his sb any time he limps? You're in position. Time to own him.
 
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WiZZiM

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Yes vs players who will raise atc limping becomes way less viable. However you dont really know how players will react until they actually raise you in these spots. If in playing vs someone like yourself and i anticipate you raising atc ill simply re raise jam all in making it pretty tough for you to call.

Vs tight players limping is also a pretty terrible option as we can just raise and take their blinds.

Vs loose passive types raising in spots like this is ok however limping wiol achieve the same thing with far less risk. So id argue vs these types limping would almost be more profitable. It also saves those times we raise cbet and have him call. If we limp bet half pot flop thats 150 plus 300ish on the flop costing 450. Whereas rasing will cost 400 plus 450 on the flop costing us 850 on the play. From a stack of 1900 that is pretty huge. And with raising we also cant really play past the flop without being committed.

So i get what you are saying but not that many people will raise atc on you from the bb. When blinds are higher making these lower risk steals is a really good play to have in your arsenal. If you never limp in from the sb you are missing out on some really good steal spots on the flop.
 
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