$80 NLHE MTT Turbo: Would you have shoved?

I got back from Vegas last week and this is the hand that bothered me the most in the 4 tourneys I played while there. I would like to know on a scale of 1-10 how stupid a mistake it was.
I'm in a small poker room tourney that payed 3 places. There were 30-40 players. I was at the final table with 4 of us left. 2 large stacks and 2 smaller stack, me being ahead of the smallest stack. UTG I get AK suited and shove with my 12 bbs left. Big stack bb calls with 56 and takes me out. Should I have folded hoping the smaller stack (about 7 bbs iirc) went out first? Did I commit tourney suicide doing that?

I would have shoved as well.

You win that pot and your chances of taking home the tournament go up greatly.

It's not like the other shortstack is on one big blind they aren't too far behind us. You just got unlucky this time and it sucks but I would have done the same thing.

Congratulations, I hope you have passed very well in the Vegas.
What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas.
And on the hand, I do not play at these levels of 80$, but I will give my opinion, I think you push was correct, AKs is a very strong hand, most of the time would have to win, this time it was not, but that's poker.

belladonna05 said:

I got back from Vegas last week and this is the hand that bothered me the most in the 4 tourneys I played while there. I would like to know on a scale of 1-10 how stupid a mistake it was.
I'm in a small poker room tourney that payed 3 places. There were 30-40 players. I was at the final table with 4 of us left. 2 large stacks and 2 smaller stack, me being ahead of the smallest stack. UTG I get AK suited and shove with my 12 bbs left. Big stack bb calls with 56 and takes me out. Should I have folded hoping the smaller stack (about 7 bbs iirc) went out first? Did I commit tourney suicide doing that?

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Would you be asking yourself if this was correct if you won the hand?

If you knew the villian has 56, you would be very happy to get it in with AK, because the math says AK will win against 56 more times then lose.

You need to take the best opportunities as they come, sure you could have waited for the shortest stack to make his move, but he could easily double-up and leave you in the last place.

With only 4 players remaining, the blinds move around quickly and will eat your stack very fast, 4 handed Short-stacked w/ AK is about as good a spot as you could ask for.

I have lost more chips with AK then any other hand, so I have learned to fold it, (most of the time).

MatMackenz said:

Would you be asking yourself if this was correct if you won the hand?

If you knew the villian has 56, you would be very happy to get it in with AK, because the math says AK will win against 56 more times then lose.

You need to take the best opportunities as they come, sure you could have waited for the shortest stack to make his move, but he could easily double-up and leave you in the last place.

With only 4 players remaining, the blinds move around quickly and will eat your stack very fast, 4 handed Short-stacked w/ AK is about as good a spot as you could ask for.

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I thought it was, but I needed someone elses thoughts. Seing as how I was 0 for 4 at the tourney tables and almost made the money twice, makes me question all my decisions. It's why I asked. I won't even tell you how I was about 15 places from payout on the wsop seniors circuit tourney and blew that up, or the getting it all in with kings against aces in another one.

What was the cash laddering from 1-3 place? If the goal is to mincash, AK seems like a dangerous shove - if the goal is to place higher, AK is probably a great shove that will usually work especially on the bubble it seems like.

I think shoving was the wrong play. While a big goal of any MTT is to amass the chips needed to contend for the big money at the top of the leader board the ultimate goal is always survival. I agree with an earlier post in this thread about AK....I always find the hand so alluring that I must fight my tendency to overplay the hand. The key for me if I was playing this hand is to keep reminding myself of the ultimate goal.

Serious question - If your AK held up here, or your shove got through, would this thread have been made?

On a scale of 1 to 10, your mistake level is a 1, the BB's mistake level is a 10.

Also, if you look at the pinned thread in this forum, it states.....

5. Do NOT indicate what the outcome of the hand is, especially in the opening post. This is a truly irrelevant piece of information, since it's an unknown variable when you acted throughout the hand. It also biases the analysis - if I know that you got sucked out on the river, I may not think clearly about what your action should have been on the flop.

Because many threads like this are made where it's more of a bad beat post than a legitimate "Hand Analysis" thread.

trent32la said:

Serious question - If your AK held up here, or your shove got through, would this thread have been made?

On a scale of 1 to 10, your mistake level is a 1, the BB's mistake level is a 10.

Also, if you look at the pinned thread in this forum, it states.....

5. Do NOT indicate what the outcome of the hand is, especially in the opening post. This is a truly irrelevant piece of information, since it's an unknown variable when you acted throughout the hand. It also biases the analysis - if I know that you got sucked out on the river, I may not think clearly about what your action should have been on the flop.

Because many threads like this are made where it's more of a bad beat post than a legitimate "Hand Analysis" thread.

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I know very little about ICM, but I think the shove with AK is correct, unless it was very likely that someone would leave fast.
Also BB's call with 56 might be correct, depending the stack size.
Just sad that you didn't win.

I don't hate the shove I also don't like it either. It's tough to say but you should consider the fact it's on the bubble you win you double up and pretty much guarantee some money. you lose and out the door with nothing. Since the other player had about 5 bb's less than you I probably would have folded since that player is under more pressure than you are. If it was me I'd shove only pocket 88's or better and not worry about the top draw hands (ie AK or AQ) Suited hands also shouldn't be a factor in your decision's pre flop. The fact is the only difference between AKo and AKs is just a measly 2.5%. If your equity is 20% with AKo then AKs will be 22.5%. Not a real difference for me to justify shoving AKs over AKo. But this is why we play this game. Mistakes happen left and right in poker. It's what we learn from them that makes us better. What I think you should learn from this is that you play extremely tight on the bubble when somebody else is shorter than you. It's hard to do but that's why the pro's call it a disciplined fold.

trent32la said:

Serious question - If your AK held up here, or your shove got through, would this thread have been made?

On a scale of 1 to 10, your mistake level is a 1, the BB's mistake level is a 10.

Also, if you look at the pinned thread in this forum, it states.....

5. Do NOT indicate what the outcome of the hand is, especially in the opening post. This is a truly irrelevant piece of information, since it's an unknown variable when you acted throughout the hand. It also biases the analysis - if I know that you got sucked out on the river, I may not think clearly about what your action should have been on the flop.

Because many threads like this are made where it's more of a bad beat post than a legitimate "Hand Analysis" thread.

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Sorry. I rarely if ever post here so my mistake on posting the outcome. I really wanted advice on whether I made the right play with money vs no money being left and a shorter stack than me. It wasn't about the "bad beat" but whether is was the correct play. I don't want to second guess myself when such a scenario repeats itself again. Judging from the answers, I'm still not 100 percent sure.

I think you must not shove with 12 bb! maybe 7, 8. You still can built a strategy with 12 bbs. Give you 6!

This was by no means a mistake. You got it in good. If the other short stack had 1bb, then yeah maybe just wait. But he still had a chance. Don't doubt your move here

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For me it is a shove for sure. If the shortstack was on 3 or less BB then it might be different, but in this case a shove.

Hi, I fold, I'll stay with the 3 place or at least wait, but that really depends on the criteria of each one, you thought about increasing your stack and maybe get the tournament and that's very respectable