$80 NLHE MTT Turbo Rebuy: Line check on big hand- 1st orbit of tourney

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uavissar

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Live tourney. I joined late, so stacks are uneven.
Blinds 200/400 ante 25.

I'm UTG + 1 with X X and 30K (will complete once I get some responses)

I raise to 1100.
Button (I barely cover) calls.
SB (I cover) calls
BB (I cover) calls.
Pot is ~4500

Flop- :3s4::5d4::8d4:
SB checks
BB checks
I bet 2800.
Button calls rest fold.
Pot is 10K

Turn is :7s4:
I bet 4800.
Button calls.
Pot is 19600.

River is :9h4:
I shove ~21K.

- What is your calling range if you are the button?
 
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microse

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Ad8x, Ad7d, Ad9d, 6x, QQ, KK, AA, 33, 55, 88, 77, 99



I don’t know if I put too many A7-9 in there with UTG+1 raise and multiple callers. If they are in I think that A9 folds on the turn. I think any pocket is fair to call preflop, but then the flop call does imply a set or the 6s. 77 and 99 continue to the turn but I think 99 has a good chance of folding. QQ-AA could all be in there. I think 56 and 67 suited are in there, any suit, with diamonds being most likely to continue.

I’d say Ad8d, Ad7d, 56s, 67s, QQ-AA, 33, 55, 77, 88.

Yours is a more conservative assessment giving more credit to the hands villain could have, but I think you could be giving up some value there.
 
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kozong

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as BTN, what is my stack size?

what am i, tight or loose?

as big stack i might call w/ top pair, 2 pairs & overpairs but only calling w/ sets & straights if we are close (might call w/ 2 pairs & overpairs too if we have histories)

oh & i have no experience on live tourneys
:eek:
 
Jacki Burkhart

Jacki Burkhart

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- What is your calling range if you are the button?

You're asking our calling range. OK, I'll play along but I wann ask: what are you repping?


I'm gonna call pretty light actually in this spot (unless you're a total scared money fish) because what you're repping is really thin. overpairs would slow down. flopped sets and 2 pair would slow down. open enders might not play it so fast with the diamond draw out there (although they might to be fair). If you rivered a 9 you would probably check your showdown value.


From my point of view you're repping a straight or missed draws or a random spewy 3 barrel bluff. Because the missed draws and random bluffs are more common than a straight here (esp cuz most UTG ranges don't contain much 6x) I'm for sure gonna call with any 8x or better. If I've got any live reads that you are weak, or I've seen you spew off before I'm gonna call with ANY pair and since 22 and AK are essentially the same on this board I might even look you up with AK (i've done it before on boards like this and been right, but also it's hard for me to get to this river holding AK unless its AdKd but I probably 3bet that preflop so any pair is the bottom of my most likely calling range).

The real question given the stacks, betting and board is what am I getting to the river with that I'm folding? not much. the flop is terrible for an UTG range. The turn and river only get worse. I would be tempted to bluff catch with AQ but would probably let it go because sometimes you will take this line with AQ or AK and I don't want to bluff catch, be right and still lose or only win half the pot.
 
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uavissar

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as BTN, what is my stack size?

what am i, tight or loose?

as big stack i might call w/ top pair, 2 pairs & overpairs but only calling w/ sets & straights if we are close (might call w/ 2 pairs & overpairs too if we have histories)

oh & i have no experience on live tourneys
:eek:

BTN- as I said, close to 30K. Just under.
Loose though thinking player. Had a similar spot with him in another tourney, though he said he did not remember it.
 
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uavissar

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You're asking our calling range. OK, I'll play along but I wann ask: what are you repping?


I'm gonna call pretty light actually in this spot (unless you're a total scared money fish) because what you're repping is really thin. overpairs would slow down. flopped sets and 2 pair would slow down. open enders might not play it so fast with the diamond draw out there (although they might to be fair). If you rivered a 9 you would probably check your showdown value.


From my point of view you're repping a straight or missed draws or a random spewy 3 barrel bluff. Because the missed draws and random bluffs are more common than a straight here (esp cuz most UTG ranges don't contain much 6x) I'm for sure gonna call with any 8x or better. If I've got any live reads that you are weak, or I've seen you spew off before I'm gonna call with ANY pair and since 22 and AK are essentially the same on this board I might even look you up with AK (i've done it before on boards like this and been right, but also it's hard for me to get to this river holding AK unless its AdKd but I probably 3bet that preflop so any pair is the bottom of my most likely calling range).

The real question given the stacks, betting and board is what am I getting to the river with that I'm folding? not much. the flop is terrible for an UTG range. The turn and river only get worse. I would be tempted to bluff catch with AQ but would probably let it go because sometimes you will take this line with AQ or AK and I don't want to bluff catch, be right and still lose or only win half the pot.

- I'm repping a monster or air -10J suited, sets or overplayed over pairs.
- I disagree its awful, especially once SB and BB are out of the way.
- I understand your line of thinking and admit that against a very competent player I would not be taking this line.
 
Jacki Burkhart

Jacki Burkhart

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- I disagree its awful, especially once SB and BB are out of the way.

This flop doesn't favor an UTG opening range. now, I admit that it hits the SB and BB harder than it hits the Button. But when you bet flop the SB and BB are not out of the way....they could still check raise.


but once they fold yes betting turn is safer than if SB or BB had called.


But that turn card is better for Button range than our range. we are specifically repping overpairs and sets at this point. which is fine but getting thin.


on river overpairs don't jam, or at least they shouldn't. so you're repping a straight or maybe a set. but what straights would have raised pre and bet all 3 streets like this? it just keeps getting thinner.
 
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uavissar

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This flop doesn't favor an UTG opening range. now, I admit that it hits the SB and BB harder than it hits the Button. But when you bet flop the SB and BB are not out of the way....they could still check raise.


but once they fold yes betting turn is safer than if SB or BB had called.


But that turn card is better for Button range than our range. we are specifically repping overpairs and sets at this point. which is fine but getting thin.


on river overpairs don't jam, or at least they shouldn't. so you're repping a straight or maybe a set. but what straights would have raised pre and bet all 3 streets like this? it just keeps getting thinner.

Apologies- I meant once SB and BB fold. Obviously if they re-raise I need to have a monster there to call.


With this sizing on the turn I am preparing to shove river if I get called . I think that overpairs would play this way on the turn. The turn didn't complete anything really relevant. I want to make maximum value from the drawing hands Button can have.
Once the pot is that large on the river- a good player (and this villain is ok), "should" shove/value bet with whatever he's got (if I check). So if I check - then what? I call with my OP and hope for the best? On the other hand if I shove/bet big I force the button to make a tough decision. Unless he has a straight, which is possible, but unlikely, he will have a tough decision calling (if I'm bluffing) and if I do have the nuts/strong hand I make maximum value if he does call.

Also - have a look at the ranges people (so far) said they would call here with. Shoving an overpair here is very profitable.


oh and :10d4::jd4: and :10s4::js4: , :6d4::7d4: and :6s4::7s4: would play exactly like this. At least I would. Especially when deep.

I used to play these boards exactly as you described and lately have been trying to approach them differently - hence this post.
Several times I stacked players who indeed called me with the ranges described, sometimes even with weaker holdings (3rd pair lol). Several times I was called on my bluffs. Yet in total not enough to make a decision if it is indeed better to play them this way.
What I did notice is that rarely do I get folds once the turn has been called and with this thread I'm almost convinced this is the better way to play OP and up but that bluffing is not wise on this board, at least not 3 barreling.

In this specific case I was bluffing. He called with 45o
 
Jacki Burkhart

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I mean, it's good that you're thinking about all these things and how to best get value out of overpairs etc. but this is kind of a throwing pearls at swine type situation.

save your fancy plays for good players.

this is a $80 live turbo in the rebuy period. they're not folding anything. I wouldn't either.
 
mbrenneman0

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I don’t know if I put too many A7-9 in there with UTG+1 raise and multiple callers. If they are in I think that A9 folds on the turn. I think any pocket is fair to call preflop, but then the flop call does imply a set or the 6s. 77 and 99 continue to the turn but I think 99 has a good chance of folding. QQ-AA could all be in there. I think 56 and 67 suited are in there, any suit, with diamonds being most likely to continue.

I’d say Ad8d, Ad7d, 56s, 67s, QQ-AA, 33, 55, 77, 88.

Yours is a more conservative assessment giving more credit to the hands villain could have, but I think you could be giving up some value there.

Why would A9dd fold the turn when youre giving him pot odds to call? Hell, live players would probably call that turn with a gutter ball.


I think Jillys range is spot on and the real question is what percent of his turn calling range does that river calling range make up? I dont think you have enough fold equity to bluff here unless you have blockers that remove a significant percent of his range...


Feels like you overvalued an overpair or AK here

Edit: theres a few hands that jilly forgot that beat you here, like 99 98s 87s, and i think some of those 2nd pair hands might fold with the straight on the board
 
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uavissar

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save your fancy plays for good players.

My main lesson here. Maybe specifically here my mistake was that I thought that player was better than what he really is because of my history with him.
 
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