$7 NLHE MTT: Donk betting slight overpair on paired board

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fundiver199

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pokerstars, $6.37 + $0.63 - Hold'em No Limit - 15/30 (4 ante) - 6 players
Hand delivered by CardsChat - https://www.cardschat.com/hand-converter.php
UTG: 1,528 (51 bb)
MP: 2,277 (76 bb)
CO: 2,617 (87 bb)
BU: 4,936 (165 bb)
SB (Hero): 3,306 (110 bb)
BB: 3,606 (120 bb)
Pre-Flop: (69) Hero is SB with 8d 8h
1 fold, MP raises to 90, 2 players fold, Hero calls 75, 1 fold
Flop: (234) 7h 7s 6d (2 players)
Hero bets 117, MP raises to 234, Hero calls 117
Turn: (702) 9c (2 players)
Hero checks, MP bets 690, Hero calls 690
River: (2,082) 7c (2 players)
Hero checks, MP bets 1,259 (all-in), Hero?

Tournament is a 7$ 18 man SnG on Pokerstars with 12 players left. 4 places pay. Regular speed with 10 min blind intervals.

Villain stats: VPIP 24 / PFR 20 over 25 hands.

I decided to go for a donk bet on the flop, because if I check-call, overcards will pop a ton of the time, and then I have no clue, if he is bluffing, or if he just got there. Surely up for debate, but this was my rationale.
 
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ssbn743

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PokerStars, $6.37 + $0.63 - Hold'em No Limit - 15/30 (4 ante) - 6 players
Hand delivered by CardsChat - https://www.cardschat.com/hand-converter.php
UTG: 1,528 (51 bb)
MP: 2,277 (76 bb)
CO: 2,617 (87 bb)
BU: 4,936 (165 bb)
SB (Hero): 3,306 (110 bb)
BB: 3,606 (120 bb)
Pre-Flop: (69) Hero is SB with 8d 8h
1 fold, MP raises to 90, 2 players fold, Hero calls 75, 1 fold
Flop: (234) 7h 7s 6d (2 players)
Hero bets 117, MP raises to 234, Hero calls 117
Turn: (702) 9c (2 players)
Hero checks, MP bets 690, Hero calls 690
River: (2,082) 7c (2 players)
Hero checks, MP bets 1,259 (all-in), Hero?

Tournament is a 7$ 18 man SnG on Pokerstars with 12 players left. 4 places pay. Regular speed with 10 min blind intervals.

Villain stats: VPIP 24 / PFR 20 over 25 hands.

I decided to go for a donk bet on the flop, because if I check-call, overcards will pop a ton of the time, and then I have no clue, if he is bluffing, or if he just got there. Surely up for debate, but this was my rationale.

We really need to try hard to have 0% calls from SB - You'll find it massively improves your game and win rate. We are going to find situations where calling from SB is acceptable, but those are going to be with hands like 9Js.... in other words, a very small number of combos.

I will admit that I myself have problems with these spots. This is a perfect case because even though we don't want to call, we're getting great set-mine odds with our pair and this is a SNG where the upside is enormous.

Now, we could 3-bet, but do we really want to do that OOP against a +1 range?

Hence the dilemma

I'm ok with the call in this spot since we're 100BB deep, but especially with a shorter stack, like say 40BB, I'd go for 3-bet/fold to 4-bet.

However, by calling we've turned our hand into a set-mine and a set-mine only - no donk bets, especially on a paired board. If I were villain here, I'd raise all donk bets knowing that they'll have to fold.

Check out this link and specifically, #2 on the list
https://upswingpoker.com/donk-bet-lead-flop-strategy

We need to check 100% of our range from the SB. Yes, it's true that over cards come on the turn often, but that's ok, we just play our hand accordingly. We're going to check/call flop. If the turn is a K (for example) we're going to have to check/call again.

Paired boards are an interesting topic honestly. But imagine if the flop was K76, we'd check/call that flop with 88 all day. 776K is equivalent to K76, especially when villain can never have a 7 unless it's two of them.

So, as played the turn is fine, except to say we've bloated the pot by donk-bet/calling the flop. As you'll notice we still have no idea where we're at and villain could still easily have us crushed.

As played, river is a fold - if he's bluffing you, it's a good play, but I'd take the same line with AKo here just because of the donk-bet - at some point, I'll be able to turn the heat up so high you won't be able to stand it.

So honestly, pre-flop this should have gone one of two ways:
1. 3-bet
a. Villain folds
b. Villain calls - lead 1/3 (Our paired board sizing) and play accordingly
c. Villain 4bets/fold

2. Call and Always check flop
a. Call
b. C/R (A pretty good option on this specific case IMO)
 
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feisas7991

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We really need to try hard to have 0% calls from SB - You'll find it massively improves your game and win rate. We are going to find situations where calling from SB is acceptable, but those are going to be with hands like 9Js.... in other words, a very small number of combos.

I will admit that I myself have problems with these spots. This is a perfect case because even though we don't want to call, we're getting great set-mine odds with our pair and this is a SNG where the upside is enormous.

Now, we could 3-bet, but do we really want to do that OOP against a +1 range?

Hence the dilemma

I'm ok with the call in this spot since we're 100BB deep, but especially with a shorter stack, like say 40BB, I'd go for 3-bet/fold to 4-bet.

However, by calling we've turned our hand into a set-mine and a set-mine only - no donk bets, especially on a paired board. If I were villain here, I'd raise all donk bets knowing that they'll have to fold.

Check out this link and specifically, #2 on the list
https://upswingpoker.com/donk-bet-lead-flop-strategy

We need to check 100% of our range from the SB. Yes, it's true that over cards come on the turn often, but that's ok, we just play our hand accordingly. We're going to check/call flop. If the turn is a K (for example) we're going to have to check/call again.

Paired boards are an interesting topic honestly. But imagine if the flop was K76, we'd check/call that flop with 88 all day. 776K is equivalent to K76, especially when villain can never have a 7 unless it's two of them.

So, as played the turn is fine, except to say we've bloated the pot by donk-bet/calling the flop. As you'll notice we still have no idea where we're at and villain could still easily have us crushed.

As played, river is a fold - if he's bluffing you, it's a good play, but I'd take the same line with AKo here just because of the donk-bet - at some point, I'll be able to turn the heat up so high you won't be able to stand it.

So honestly, pre-flop this should have gone one of two ways:
1. 3-bet
a. Villain folds
b. Villain calls - lead 1/3 (Our paired board sizing) and play accordingly
c. Villain 4bets/fold

2. Call and Always check flop
a. Call
b. C/R (A pretty good option on this specific case IMO)


TOP NOTCH POST! Thats how id coach students if i had any.

Couples notes:
1) Always raising leads atc is dangerous.
2) Your alternative line seem to be playing with fire. If we get called we are obviously shutting down further betting from our side. When we check, we start a complete guessing game if he has it or not, therefor i heavily prefer just to check call otf and see how it plays out. No need to take suicidal lines in a 7$ game.

b. C/R (A pretty good option on this specific case IMO)[/QUOTE]


Hope This helps and GOOD LUCK!
 
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fundiver199

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Thanks for the comments guys. Here are my own thoughts, and what actually happened:

Preflop
Maybe we can mix in a 3-bet from time to time, but I am not a huge fan of it. Seem like he play very perfect against it. Never folding obviously.

Flop
Donk betting is for sure unconventional and not my normal line. But it let to a result, which I think is interesting, and this is, why I shared the hand. As played mandatory call especially with his sizing.

Turn
I can see folding here. The 9 rarely helped him, but I still lose to trips, boats or a better overpair, even though these should mostly just have called the donk bet and not raised. However I kind of smelled BS. Call it instinct or being a fish. As you know, I called.

River
This is another interesting point in the hand, and now I think, I absolutely can not fold. The reason is, this river card knocked out most of his logical value range. 7X is now only half as likely, and 66 got counterfeited. All the bluffs are still there though, so its easy for him to be bluffing way to much.

Result
I called, and he had some airball bluff like KT offsuit. Cant remember the exact cards and dont have the hand history on this computer.

My conclusion
Donk betting is unconventional, but if it can induce an aggressive regular to spazz out and bluff his stack away, then maybe its something, we should look to do a bit more often. It was a great feeling to see him fly out of the tournament, and this hand helped me take down second place.
 
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