$7.70 NLHE MTT Deep Stacked: Over pair vs. all in?

This hand took place early on in the tournament. Everybody had at least 4000 in chips with blinds 30-60. I had 6k. Villain had around 4.2k and I'm pretty sure it's a computer.

Shuffling Cards
SB posted Small Blind 30
BB posted Big Blind 60
You Were Dealt (Jd,Jc)
Villain raised to 180
UTG+1 calls 180
UTG+2 folds
HJ calls 180
CU calls 180
Hero calls 180
SB folds
BB folds
Dealing Flop (4d,7s,8s), Pot: 990
Villain bets 540
UTG+1 folds
HJ folds
CU folds
Hero raised to 1275
Villain calls 1275
Dealing Turn (Tc), Pot: 3540
Villain is All In (for his last 2.7k or so)
Hero ???


Any advice?

what can we beat?

Villain (from UTg) is leading out into a bunch of players (this would be a sh1t spot to be doing so with AK, AQ,... & is more likely TT, QQ+ imo) PLUS you've shown a TON of strength by raising flop (btw... why did we raise flop?).

Don't raise the flop. In fact, best course of action is probably to fold the flop.

He open-raised UTG, and lead for over half pot into 4 opponents. The only hands that should be doing that are 77+ and AsKs/AsQs. Of these, you beat 6 combos of 99, 6 combos of TT and 2 combos of AsK/Qs. You chop with 1 combo of JJ.
Hands that beat you: 3 combos of 77, 3 of 88, 6 of QQ, KK and AA.

You beat 14 combos at best, chop with one, and lose to 24 combos.

Raising the flop isn't such a hot idea now, is it?

Once he leads again on the turn, I think his range is going to be 77/88 and KK+. You beat nothing.

TimovieMan said:

Once he leads again on the turn, I think his range is going to be 77/88 and KK+. You beat nothing.

Click to expand...

& TT

chance of a spazz factor are very low (imo)

Hate the flat pre here. UTG is really the only player we're worried about being ahead of us and there's a ton of dead money in the pot. I'm 3betting pre without question to 900-1k and obviously folding if UTG comes over the top. Our JJ may as well be 22 in this spot because we're set mining. I would actually rather flat 22 here because it's less likely someone has a 2.

We're in a pretty bleh spot on this flop when UTG leads into 5 players as he never has worse than AsQs/AsKs here, and although I'm tempted to take one off because we're now headsup, the most disciplined play here would be to fold considering how little we beat and our opponent jams most turns and puts us in an even worse spot. As I stated above, when we flat JJ here, we're pretty much set mining and we did not flop a Jack.

This flop raise makes absolutely zero sense. Why do we want to build a pot with a midrange hand against a strong range? We're pretty turning our JJ into a bluff here and hoping villain is disciplined enough to fold an overpair here thinking we have a set. I highly doubt you would raise a set here though when you can let him barrel off on later streets.

Turn isn't even in question a fold, we beat nothing other than AsKs/AsQs or a very very strange spaz by villain.

I see a case for a 3bet preflop to thin the field while you're in position. This also helps to narrow the ranges making reading where you're at post flop somewhat easier. Calling isn't terrible but you kinda need to consider your hand as looking to set mine more often than not when you keep so many other hands in the pot.

Given the villian is willing to continue out of position against so many players makes me doubtful JJ is ahead on the flop but that's not definate. That is really player dependent like almost all situations in poker. Is this someone who is positionally insensitive? Is it someone who doesn't understand relative hand strength? These types of thoughts and observations of villian would help me to decide how to continue post flop play. Raising to find out where your at is reasonable, smooth calling to see if villian checks the turn and gives up is fine as well if this is the type of player who c bets one barrel. Folding I think is out of the question.

As played now that villain calls the raise and jams turn I don't see much we are beating unless this is a maniac who's making this play with a flush draw or something spazzy. Mostly tho I think we are up against sets and over pairs here. Villain has shown very consistent strength throughout the hand and it's hards to find many hands we beat. Tough fold but it's the line I would take

Hm, personaly i would 3bet before the flop...

agree with the general opinion of "take the chips you spent raising the flop and instead use those to raise preflop". You called 180 and then raised to 1275. So you've already committed 1,455 to this hand. Had you simply raised to about 900-1,000 preflop it would have been CHEAPER and actually given you more information about the strength of villain's hand. (if he calls a big 5x preflop 3bet he has something, but your flop raise is only a 2.3x raise, which is relatively small for him to call if he has anything. and if he has ANYTHING you are beat. preflop, you could actually beat some of his hands he might call with like AK/AQ. now, you'll beat essentially nothing when he calls).

Now....if you elect to flat with JJ preflop you must understand what you are doing and have a plan. You are essentially set mining. meaning you don't continue post flop without a set. On this flop you should just fold. 2nd best option would be flatting...but it's a distant 2nd. Only reason to flat is to just hope he's bluffing or overvaluing a hand we beat and just call him down if overs don't come. I think that's a bad plan but it's much better than raising. Raising is just suicide. you're now bluffing with JJ. When he calls your bluff, he has something and you're beat. turn is an easy easy fold.

Here I think is what you could do to most improve your game moving forward:
Everytime you put money into a pot, understand WHY you are doing it.


ask yourself: is this a value bet? then there must be worse hands than me that can also call this bet.

Is this a protection bet? then there must be hands that I am currently beating that have good equity to outdraw me.

Is this a bluff? then there must be better hands than me AND I think I can get them to fold to this bet.

Am I on a draw and getting the right odds or implied odds to continue?

Do I smell a bluff and think my hand is strong enough to just act weak and call down? Will I have the stones to call down later?


Betting for information, or to "find out where I'm at" has been basically debunked by nearly all good players as a bad logic for putting more money into the pot.

Raise preflop for value imo

If so early in tournament with not enough info on villain, just 3bet pre then reevaluate the flop and latter street.

3bet preflop is an option. Call flop.