$7.50 NLHE MTT Bounty: Shove, call or fold? Bounty Builder

Alucard

Alucard

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Haven't opened PT4. He just came to the table as I remember. Bounty builder so people are after bounties. I won't get his since he's stacked a bit than me

pokerstars Hand #176119711596: Tournament #2048120065, $3.41+$3.41+$0.68 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level X (70/140) - 2017/09/26 2:12:49 IST [2017/09/25 16:42:49 ET]
Table '2048120065 48' 9-max Seat #9 is the button
Seat 1: xRoyalDevil (4576 in chips, $3.41 bounty)
Seat 2: Albert198704 (3323 in chips, $3.41 bounty)
Seat 3: Tetipkr (13474 in chips, $5.11 bounty)
Seat 4: Bahubali420 (3717 in chips, $3.41 bounty)
Seat 5: MpZancan (10646 in chips, $3.41 bounty)
Seat 6: Alainga0019 (14203 in chips, $6.81 bounty)
Seat 7: marcinhobm (20388 in chips, $10.21 bounty)
Seat 8: Alucard5077 (13821 in chips, $7.66 bounty)
Seat 9: Honolulu (14313 in chips, $3.41 bounty)

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Alucard5077 [9d 8d]
Tetipkr: folds
Bahubali420: folds
MpZancan: folds
Alainga0019: folds
marcinhobm: raises 140 to 280
Alucard5077: raises 420 to 700
Honolulu: calls 700
xRoyalDevil: folds
Albert198704: folds
marcinhobm: calls 420
*** FLOP *** [9c 2d 7d]
marcinhobm: checks
Alucard5077: bets 1799
Honolulu: raises 2331 to 4130
marcinhobm: folds
Alucard5077: ????
 
Ivansito26

Ivansito26

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a very difficult hand with project flush and u pairs 99... and in chips how much your opponent had
 
Ivansito26

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Honolulu (14313 in chips, ) ok ok.... maybe have hands stronger
 
terryk

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Easy shove,,all day;) (let me ask you a question,if this wasn`t a $7.50 buy-in,would you shove for a $1?) I already know your answer. ;)
 
Ivansito26

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Easy shove,,all day;) (let me ask you a question,if this wasn`t a $7.50 buy-in,would you shove for a $1?) I already know your answer. ;)

he shove all in
 
terryk

terryk

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Yeah well... I snap shoved lolz
Good:) Next time you`ll win it,and you`ll be the big stack,,,gl Alu. (asuming you lost,but hope u won,lol)
 
Alucard

Alucard

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The bugger had Queens and the board held for him. But on the mathematical side of things, I'm not sure if this the right play or not.

Considering the pot odds, when I shove the pot is around 17.2k where he has 11.8k left I think as per my calculations.

So he needs about 43% equity to make the call I think.

I ran the equilab calculations & it came up like this. Not very familiar with using these stuff & I need to study more

http://www.pokerstrategy.com
Board: 7d2d9c
Equity Win Tie
MP3 11.28% 11.28% 0.00% { 66-33, A5s-A2s, KTs, QTs+, JTs }
CO 44.77% 44.77% 0.00% { 9d8d }
BU 43.95% 43.95% 0.00% { QQ }
 
EllinLucky

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In this situation I would go allin. If go back tothe beginning - fold preflop.
 
A

AviCKter

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Bit more complicated than it seems

Bounty builders are a bit tough to analyze.

Here's why:
At the start of the tournament, you buy-in for $7.50, $3.41 of which goes towards the chips, $3.41 goes towards the bounty and rest is rake.

So lets say at the start of the tournament, you're given a 5000 chip stack. Then the initial total value of bounty is somewhere close to 2500 in chips (i.e. 50% of the chip, since you're paying paying $3.41 for 5000 chips, & the other half goes towards your own bounty), which has to be accounted for while trying to calculate EV.

But the maths isn't perfect in figuring out on which hands should be called and which folded; and the complexity keeps rising with stack size, field size.

As a general rule of thumb, when you're calling for a bounty, call a little wider. But when your own bounty's on the line, play a little tighter.
 
Alucard

Alucard

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Thanks avi. Do you know some good sites or articles to study about the mathematical side of things?
 
A

AviCKter

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Thanks avi. Do you know some good sites or articles to study about the mathematical side of things?

I have read the "Mathematics of Poker" ~ By Bill Chen & Jerrod Ankenman. I too, tried to search for some one who could teach me, even tried some coaching sites, but most sites lack that approach to poker (that said, the only good thing that happened was that I found some people with that bent of mind, people who shared my approach to the game). But you can always search on google: Mathematics of "x", where x is the type of tournament/concept you want to learn more about.

Sorry, couldn't be of much help.
 
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sryImPro

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i see the results but regardless, i would do the same, all in is there the best move.
Other guy wanted to see if the K or Ace would land the board, in fact he didn't want to see that, so he could make his moves on the flop. Anyways bounty builder is a very specific kind of tournament so you've played it exactly as you should. Ul buddy, better luck next time
 
Alucard

Alucard

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fold - because was raise before your move

lol wut?
I'm not trying to be rude. But please study a lot about the game before you post an analysis or advice specially in hand analysis thread.
I' quite a noob myself but your comment doesn't make any sense at all.
 
terryk

terryk

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Yep,the math is prob `wrong` on a call there,,:saint:
 
EllinLucky

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lol wut?
I'm not trying to be rude. But please study a lot about the game before you post an analysis or advice specially in hand analysis thread.
I' quite a noob myself but your comment doesn't make any sense at all.

thanks for the answer. I'm here to learn.
 
B

bkkblues99

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Bounty builders are a bit tough to analyze.

Here's why:
At the start of the tournament, you buy-in for $7.50, $3.41 of which goes towards the chips, $3.41 goes towards the bounty and rest is rake.

So lets say at the start of the tournament, you're given a 5000 chip stack. Then the initial total value of bounty is somewhere close to 2500 in chips (i.e. 50% of the chip, since you're paying paying $3.41 for 5000 chips, & the other half goes towards your own bounty), which has to be accounted for while trying to calculate EV.

But the maths isn't perfect in figuring out on which hands should be called and which folded; and the complexity keeps rising with stack size, field size.

As a general rule of thumb, when you're calling for a bounty, call a little wider. But when your own bounty's on the line, play a little tighter.
Thanks. That was a very effective and eloquently put explanation of the basic math behind bounty builders EV. The last part I think can be very useful if used correctly.
 
B

bkkblues99

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Haven't opened PT4. He just came to the table as I remember. Bounty builder so people are after bounties. I won't get his since he's stacked a bit than me

PokerStars Hand #176119711596: Tournament #2048120065, $3.41+$3.41+$0.68 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level X (70/140) - 2017/09/26 2:12:49 IST [2017/09/25 16:42:49 ET]
Table '2048120065 48' 9-max Seat #9 is the button
Seat 1: xRoyalDevil (4576 in chips, $3.41 bounty)
Seat 2: Albert198704 (3323 in chips, $3.41 bounty)
Seat 3: Tetipkr (13474 in chips, $5.11 bounty)
Seat 4: Bahubali420 (3717 in chips, $3.41 bounty)
Seat 5: MpZancan (10646 in chips, $3.41 bounty)
Seat 6: Alainga0019 (14203 in chips, $6.81 bounty)
Seat 7: marcinhobm (20388 in chips, $10.21 bounty)
Seat 8: Alucard5077 (13821 in chips, $7.66 bounty)
Seat 9: Honolulu (14313 in chips, $3.41 bounty)

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Alucard5077 [9d 8d]
Tetipkr: folds
Bahubali420: folds
MpZancan: folds
Alainga0019: folds
marcinhobm: raises 140 to 280
Alucard5077: raises 420 to 700
Honolulu: calls 700
xRoyalDevil: folds
Albert198704: folds
marcinhobm: calls 420
*** FLOP *** [9c 2d 7d]
marcinhobm: checks
Alucard5077: bets 1799
Honolulu: raises 2331 to 4130
marcinhobm: folds
Alucard5077: ????
Interesting hand.

Yea, I am shoving there. Essentially snap shoving but maybe sometimes i'll think for a few seconds, put villains range on 1010+, 22 & 77 (sometimes), AK (very rarely), realize I am currently behind that range but got great implied equity and winning this pot will give me a very commendable stack (which is absolutely great in Bounty Builders this early for booty hunting).

But yea that's just me. I am not sure if a call here is a viable option.So that leaves folding, Maybe a fold here might be OK too, considering you are so early in the tourney (I am sure Late Reg was still on), so some might argue that at this point its -EV to shove your ~100BB stack with a draw & ~ 40% equity.
 
1dkp0k3r

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:9d4: :8d4: is 52.5% to win vs QQ without the :qd4:, 47.25% vs :qd4: Q

The pot would be about 7,200 before you call the flop raise, leaving you 11,300 behind, SPR of about 1.6. Calling here makes the pot 9,500, your stack at 9,000, SPR of 1. Calling, then going all in on the turn is an option, but I think that is bad overall as an offsuit A or diamond can come and kill your action.
You would also be shoving sets and over pairs here.
Besides, if you are going to go all in on the flop or the turn, just go all in on the flop.
 
P

Pwohar43

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Post was hard to follow but, I think there is a kinda rule that says , don’t lose all your chips on a draw. And at least two players raised in front of him. Looks like a fold to me.
 
Matt Vaughan

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In the future, if at all possible, try to use a hand converter that gives us some sort of visual clues. Following the action in the hand as written is nearly impossible.

Anyway what I've gathered is we're pretty early in the tourney, pretty deep, and we 3bet pre with 98s. Not necessarily bad, but also I'd need some kind of good reason to be 3betting this hand type personally (though it's difficult for me to figure out what our position is, or any player tendencies).

As played pre, we cbet flop and get raised by a guy who cold called our 3bet preflop. His play screams 88-QQish, so it's super nice to block 99 here. We have heaps of equity here against TT-QQ, so when we face the raise, we just jam here for sure imo. We either get him to fold (AWESOME), or we don't and have plenty of equity (fine, clearly).

The only annoying thing is that if I'm not mistaken, he covers us.

Seat 8: Alucard5077 (13821 in chips, $7.66 bounty)
Seat 9: Honolulu (14313 in chips, $3.41 bounty)
But that's sort of secondary because our hand itself has too much equity regardless of him calling that we just have to put it in anyway. If we COULD win a bounty though, it would become even more of a fist pump jam due to the $EV from sometimes stacking him and getting the bounty.
 
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