$550 NLHE MTT: 550euro NLHE MTT: could i fold KK in live tourney?

nikerules

nikerules

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hi, i had played "The MPN Poker Tour Bratislava" main event in April. So it was 68-70 players still playing in tournament, 45places were in prizes, as i remember i got nearly 70 bb stack and it was first hand after i had change my sit. So i got KK on UTG all players fold, SB 3bet me and i did 2.5x 4 bet and he just jam ~60bb, i call and see AA...so if anybody got an experience of live tournaments, can you tell me can i fold my hand on new table w KK when it's not so much players to prizes and i got ~two middle stacks and if lose it would be the end for me. few my friends just say that i must fold there. at online it's easy call, but what about offline, where most of players are weak and it was 2nd day w good stack, must i risk it?
 
ZenGreen

ZenGreen

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Im going home too, maybe I dont have the discipline to fold K. Just curious if he didnt shove and 5bet you. Youre still getting it in here, right. Just sucks
 
J

JustSoPro

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In this position, your opponent is likely to have JJ+ or better, if it was a snap raise then I would instantly fold, else I would probably fold simply due to not yet being ITM. I try not to push all in until I am ITM unless < 20 BB or if I know I have the top hand(Aces, Nut Straight, Nut Flush) with a few exceptions(I have a full house but not the nuts and either a straight or flush on the board)

I play more cash games than tournament games though, so I am used to seeing people re-shove with aces pre-flop vs KK.
 
Spaceman

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I'm definately no expert, but I'll give my 2cents until somebody confirms or rejects my opinion.

With Kings the only hand that beats you preflop is Aces. All the other times, unless your opponent hits a magic board you just doubled your stack and have way better chances to be in the money or final table or even first. I cant say the exact percent of winning but I can guess that calling a shove with kings is +ev most of the times. You were unfortunate, but from the math point of view I say it was a right call. And its better to have a healthy stack to reach final table in tourneys than folding everything and be happy you reached just itm positions.


Now, could you fold it? Surely. I know many who are folding Aces when on the bubble somebody shoves on them. Could you double up and use that earned stack to finish with big money? Of course. Its really up to you, to either risk it or play it safe.
 
Peppinotom

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No way of folding here, the ICM would have brought you to a place where you could have folded every hand thereafter, until you get dealt aces. If you had folded, you woul never had reached paid places either, if that"s a help :icon_chee. I lost soooo many times KK against Aces, I keep on pushing. He would have done the same move with QQ, so you just got unlucky again.
 
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quant1986

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You will need some live read here to help make a nit fold decision. I think normally villain range would be KK+,AKo,AKs so it is still a marginal call unless you are right on the bubble.
 
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TheShek

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If many people are folding Aces on the bubble, they are letting fear rule their game. NLH is about aggression. You should never fold Aces, or Kings. Queens, for 50-60bb, maybe.

The only time it is correct to fold Aces is if you are in a satellite tournament where you have a big enough stack and all you need to do is fold to win a ticket. I would never fold Aces preflop under any circumstances. I wouldn't fold Kings either. Picking up pocket Kings doesn't happen often, and the times someone else is holding AA in the same hand are so rare you should not fear it.
 
MrGrace

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U unless there are more then 2 others pushing me basically all in i would not fold KK. But if you have a feeling they have AA should be the only reason to fold in my opinion. If too many people in the hand it gives them to many outs that's when i tend to lose to worse hands and why i would fold with more then 2 other players.
 
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Ambur

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So i got KK on UTG all players fold, SB 3bet me and i did 2.5x 4 bet and he just jam ~60bb, i call and see AA...


If the plan is not 4bet/call do not 4bet. imo
But as played (information provided), im calling.
 
nikerules

nikerules

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what can i say, it was normal call, but now i think i must fold because it was very soft game and i could realize my advantage so i don't need to risk my stack at preflop
 
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Grearix

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Woow that really s*cks. I don't know how you can lay down KK in that situation. Or you must be reading he has AA but still... what's the chance. Very bad luck.
 
K

kanselau

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In this position, your opponent is likely to have JJ+ or better, if it was a snap raise then I would instantly fold, else I would probably fold simply due to not yet being ITM. I try not to push all in until I am ITM unless < 20 BB or if I know I have the top hand(Aces, Nut Straight, Nut Flush) with a few exceptions(I have a full house but not the nuts and either a straight or flush on the board)

I play more cash games than tournament games though, so I am used to seeing people re-shove with aces pre-flop vs KK.



If villains range is JJ+ ho can you fold?
 
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kanselau

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chances off you having KK vs AA is .25 % . without solid reads you cannot fold this hand IMO. If villain is a super nit and raises UTG and you 3bet and he 4bet shoves all in then yea maybe , but without reads you must call , its a set up situation that is part off the game , don't beat yourself up over it.
 
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PKRNRS

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I'm risking it every single time. It easy to say fold when you look at hindsight but I am playing to win. That is just the nature of the game. BTW I play almost all poker in live format.
 
Nathan Smith

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You just call this - if it's your time to go it's your time to go. Remember all the times when you have aces and your opponent has kings - it's just an unavoidable part of poker. Plus when you get it in you still have 20% chance to crack the aces. It does happen.
 
liuouhgkres

liuouhgkres

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Op what was the average stack. If average stack was 30-40bb, then you did a huge mistake by 4-betting. Thinks about it this way, villain is 3-betting only QQ+ and AK and some bluffs maybe, but in reality a lot of the times, it's just KK+ with no bluffs, Not everybody 3bets QQ and Ak vs utg, so in a way when you 4bet his 3bet, you are flipping already. It's much better to call and leave all his bluffs in his range and let him continue to bluff.
 
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wilywiles

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KK is too good for me to fold. there Are only a total of 6 hands out of over 1200 that can beat you, for the 6 combinations of pocket aces. So about .5% of the hands. X 9 players, up to a about a 4.4% percent chance he has aces. However, with a 4-bet like that it narrows down his hands to be about 90% certain to be either QQs, KKs, AAs, or KKs. 4-bet with anything else is just a maniacal bluff. I would say in your position there, there is really nothing you can do. It happens to the best of us
 
hugh blair

hugh blair

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Unlucky hand man but if you are not calling a jam all in preflop with KK chances are you are going to be blinded out but maybe do not reraise just check call and try to do a little pot control as opponent might check on flop or turn to trap you check check save chips good luck in future.:eek:
 
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