$500 NLHE MTT: WSOP Satty: AA in SB. Short stack UTG PFR 2.5x. Chip leader on left.

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$500 NLHE MTT: WSOP Satty: AA in SB. Short stack UTG PFR 2.5x. Chip leader on left.

What do you guys do in this spot?

No reads on Villain1 since he just sat down at table.

Chip leader on left has shown a propensity to call with anything.

Do you 3b small, jam, or flat?

It's a weird spot bc min raising looks super strong as well as jamming bc of the chip leader on our left.

Embrace the variance and flat is probably the right answer.

Game started at: 2017/7/2 15:52:12
Game ID: 949490831 300/600 wsop MEGA SAT - 50 Seats GTD, Table 60 (Hold'em)
Seat 4 is the button
Seat 1: 3tomake5 (5208).
Seat 2: wisimaki (13511).
Seat 3: LeetRunGoot (10728).
Seat 4: Cllock32 (5580).
Seat 6: HERO (27350).
Seat 7: Villain2 (86957).
Seat 8: Villain1 (10000).
Seat 9: spewspewster (11236).
Player HERO ante (60)
Player Villain2 ante (60)
Player Villain1 ante (60)
Player spewspewster ante (60)
Player 3tomake5 ante (60)
Player wisimaki ante (60)
Player LeetRunGoot ante (60)
Player Cllock32 ante (60)
Player HERO has small blind (300)
Player Villain2 has big blind (600)
Player HERO received card: [Ah]
Player HERO received card: [Ac]
Player Villain1 raises (1590)
Player spewspewster folds
Player 3tomake5 folds
Player wisimaki folds
Player LeetRunGoot folds
Player Cllock32 folds
 
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peddy.jr.85

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$500 NLHE MTT: WSOP Satty: AA in SB. Short stack UTG PFR 2.5x. Chip leader on left.

I'm by no means a 500$ level MTT player but my opinion is probably 3 bet or jam. You have 45 bigs, Villain 2 has 100 bigs, Villain 1 has 18 bigs.

Not sure I want to see a 3 way pot here OOP. If Villan 1 2.5x's here from the CO, I'm ranging him at least KJs+. Villain 2 will flat in post flop MP with basically ATC?

I like raising in an attempt to ISO vs Villain 1. I am assuming this is a WPN hand? That's where I play and from what I know about these structures, there are a lot of players trying to get in at the 20ish bigs range willing to gamble. I probably make it like 5150 on my 3 bet in the hopes of Villain 2 flatting, Villain 1 squeezing and Hero with the ability to reopen the betting with a 5 bet jam. Just my humble opinion.

The jam option can appear super weak, minimize variance and ISO vs Villain 1.

Would love to hear the chosen line and outcome.

Also wouldn't mind any thoughts or opinions on my answer to your post as well.
 
Jillychemung

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I like raising here, if CL is stationy then lets get some more chips in here so that you can easily shove the flop, raise to 5000. If CL calls then initial raiser may shove, you can call and have CL trapped.

You don't say how far you are from the bubble so it must be far enough away to not play a significant role.
 
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marnburger

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Raise to 8BB, there's a lot of hands I'd have in this spot where I'm worried about villain 2's action, this is the hand I'm begging for action so do not want to be doing anything different. AA is the best hand in your range that you can 3-bet in this spot, keep it in there and don't get fancy.
Only way I could even think of slow playing here was if you've been super nitty recently so a sign of weakness may induce some mistakes, very rare though.
 
mbrenneman0

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i mean, id recommend not taking shots at a $500 buy in until you confidently know how to play aces. if you sattied in from the $6 or $8 sattalites thats dofferent then. but you should have a balanced 3betting range that has some bluffs in it because at this level your play depends on what range of hands you would also play this way and you want to disguise the strength of your hand while also getting maximum value.

ideally you should have a balanced 3bet range and 3bet here to somewhere between 4500 and 6000. i like closer to 6000 because of our position.
 
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trent32la

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Flat. We never have any 3B bluffs in this spot as 3betting will commit us to call off the UTG player. If there is a hand we can flat here, AA is definitely it. If the UTG player is running nitty stats then definitely make it 5k here.
 
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peddy.jr.85

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Flat. We never have any 3B bluffs in this spot as 3betting will commit us to call off the UTG player. If there is a hand we can flat here, AA is definitely it. If the UTG player is running nitty stats then definitely make it 5k here.



Flat? Do we ever want to play AA in a 3 way pot with a call station who has us covered and a rando shorter stack who is in position on everyone else?
 
mbrenneman0

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Flat. We never have any 3B bluffs in this spot as 3betting will commit us to call off the UTG player. If there is a hand we can flat here, AA is definitely it. If the UTG player is running nitty stats then definitely make it 5k here.

oh yeah, didnt realize villain 1 only had 17bb.. although honestly i think its okay to 3bet to 8 or 9bb to isolate. which i would do with the bottom of my range vs villain 1 which would then balance with the top of my range like QQ+ and AK
 
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trent32la

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Flat? Do we ever want to play AA in a 3 way pot with a call station who has us covered and a rando shorter stack who is in position on everyone else?
I don't see why not? We are more likely to benefit from the calling station BB being in the hand as we will be able to extract value from him knowing he will be sticky with a lot of 1 pair hands and draws.

There are pros/cons to both options here.

Pros to 3Bing: By 3Bing we avoid having to play OOP postflop in what is likely a 3way pot, will be able to get all in with the opener when he has JJ+/AK at bare minimum. 3Bing here is a low variance play in this spot

Cons to 3Bing: Our range is face up to something like 99+/AQ+ when we 3B here as we are never 3B/folding to the opener. The EV of 3Bing here is also limited.

Pros to flatting: Our hand is under-repped and there are very few "bad" flops for AA. We also get to play a hand with a calling station in, which will add some value to flatting as is. If this were a cash game that ran around a fish, you'd be more inclined to flat a wider range of hands in this spot knowing you'll get to play a hand with someone that will add to your EV. Flatting is a high variance, higher EV play.

Cons to flatting: We are playing AA OOP and have a greater chance of losing the hand. If the opener has JJ+/AK we don't allow ourselves to get it in pre vs him and he will put in less money postflop if he gets a bad flop. The BB will also flop a disguised monster sometimes that we'll have to pay him off with, with our hand.

The fact that this is a $540 and not a $5 MTT would make me more inclined to take the higher variance route and flat as your edge won't be nearly as high as in a lower buyin, so you can't be passing up on the highest EV play to reduce variance.
 
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peddy.jr.85

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I don't see why not? We are more likely to benefit from the calling station BB being in the hand as we will be able to extract value from him knowing he will be sticky with a lot of 1 pair hands and draws.

There are pros/cons to both options here.

Pros to 3Bing: By 3Bing we avoid having to play OOP postflop in what is likely a 3way pot, will be able to get all in with the opener when he has JJ+/AK at bare minimum. 3Bing here is a low variance play in this spot

Cons to 3Bing: Our range is face up to something like 99+/AQ+ when we 3B here as we are never 3B/folding to the opener. The EV of 3Bing here is also limited.

Pros to flatting: Our hand is under-repped and there are very few "bad" flops for AA. We also get to play a hand with a calling station in, which will add some value to flatting as is. If this were a cash game that ran around a fish, you'd be more inclined to flat a wider range of hands in this spot knowing you'll get to play a hand with someone that will add to your EV. Flatting is a high variance, higher EV play.

Cons to flatting: We are playing AA OOP and have a greater chance of losing the hand. If the opener has JJ+/AK we don't allow ourselves to get it in pre vs him and he will put in less money postflop if he gets a bad flop. The BB will also flop a disguised monster sometimes that we'll have to pay him off with, with our hand.

The fact that this is a $540 and not a $5 MTT would make me more inclined to take the higher variance route and flat as your edge won't be nearly as high as in a lower buyin, so you can't be passing up on the highest EV play to reduce variance.



Thanks for the thorough response. I play the 3$-11$ range and I feel like 3b even small is the best play. I get all your points but I have run into players in that range that you could literally turn the cards face up. And they would call looking to busy you.
 
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This is just such a weird spot bc anything I do looks extremely nutted bc of the big stack on my left which sucks.

I ripped bc I play way too many micros figuring I would at least get action from the UTG spot but no joy.

Player HERO allin (26990)
Player Villain2 folds
Player Villain1 folds
Uncalled bet (25700) returned to HERO
Player HERO mucks cards
------ Summary ------
Pot: 4260
Player 3tomake5 does not show cards.Bets: 60. Collects: 0. Loses: 60.
Player wisimaki does not show cards.Bets: 60. Collects: 0. Loses: 60.
Player LeetRunGoot does not show cards.Bets: 60. Collects: 0. Loses: 60.
Player Cllock32 does not show cards.Bets: 60. Collects: 0. Loses: 60.
*Player HERO mucks (does not show cards). Bets: 1650. Collects: 4260. Wins: 2610.
Player Villain2 does not show cards.Bets: 660. Collects: 0. Loses: 660.
Player Villain1 does not show cards.Bets: 1650. Collects: 0. Loses: 1650.
Player spewspewster does not show cards.Bets: 60. Collects: 0. Loses: 60.
Game ended at: 2017/7/2 15:53:4


What a waste of AA. slow play or min 3b is the right play.
 
mbrenneman0

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this is why you need to have balanced ranges in these stakes. obviously the right move is to get value. but when our opponents are thinking sbout our ranges. our opponenrs need to know we have bluffs in our range too. if we have a 4% 3bet frequency, will our opponent call if he thinks we only do this with JJ+/AK? probably not. if we have an 11% 3betting frequency though and villain thinks we have hands like KQ in our range here, we will get calls all day with our AA. (as well as the value we get when our bluffs get through)
 
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I think the percentages are less important than the big stack on our left. totally handicaps our ability to do anything other than flat. The player was brand new to the table and we had no hands on ea other.

Embrace the variance.
 
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The other issue is that this is a weird payout structure that is flat.

In a typical tourney, I am very OK w flatting here but playing higher variance in a satty is probably not ideal.

We are still early in the tourney and need to embrace variance to a degree though. We were 3x starting stack at this point.
 
mbrenneman0

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I think the percentages are less important than the big stack on our left. totally handicaps our ability to do anything other than flat. The player was brand new to the table and we had no hands on ea other.

Embrace the variance.

oh gotchya, i forgot about that bit. i still disagree with your statement that flatting is youre only option. although if players to act behind you have a high 3bet percentage, a flat could induce a squeeze. theres definitely room to be creative here IMO.

but if players behind you have a high vpip (ie. they call too often pre) i would 3bet all day.

i also disagree about whether or not the percentages matter. they absolutely matter. your frequencies determine your image and when we know how our opponents will react to our image we can exploit them
 
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