$500 NLHE MTT: 1 lvl before bagging about to be 10bb fold or call

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Just Blayze

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Okay so I’m looking for a little insight on a hand I played this weekend in a 500$ tournament at my local casino. I sat’d in for $80 on Friday before the tourney Saturday.
We’re on the 2nd to last level of the day before we bag, last level being 1500/3000 and I’m sitting at about 36k. Wake up utg with A10h and raise to 5k, mind you this level is 1200/2400. Button flats and we see a flop heads up, it comes K6h Js. I check and the Villian jams for 26k.
I go into the tank for a few minutes and eventually put in the call. Drawing for any heart or Q but I brick out. The more I think about it the more I feel bad about the call but at the time my mindset was this.
Next level my stacks going to 10BB effective and as much as I would like to bag for day 2 I’m playing for the win. Not to scrape by to get felted early on day 2. I ran it around 47-53% so it wasn’t a punt necessarily. If I had made the double up there I’m looking good going into day 2. Also to add a little info on the Villian, older guy, local reg but still fairly rec. I’ve seen him 3bet Jam with 2’s so I mean he’s pretty lagy on a board with bad texture. I feel like I still could have had two overs going into the hand pre.
What are your guy’s opinions? If I’m missing anything please feel free to let me know, any feedback is appreciated.
 
Luvepoker

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Interesting spot for sure. Without knowing the player you are against its hard to say. I would have C-bet the flop about 5K and seen what he would do. I see a lot of players fold to my bet here. He could have seen your check for what it was, you missed it and was concerned about your stack size. As for the call the ace was also most likely a safe card for you to win the pot but not a guaranty. To be honest I would not have called the shove here. You have 4 good outs for sure and possible 3 more but is it worth it? You would have still had 10BB and plenty of fold equity.
 
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Just Blayze

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ken nielson said:
Interesting spot for sure. Without knowing the player you are against its hard to say. I would have C-bet the flop about 5K and seen what he would do. I see a lot of players fold to my bet here. He could have seen your check for what it was, you missed it and was concerned about your stack size. As for the call the ace was also most likely a safe card for you to win the pot but not a guaranty. To be honest I would not have called the shove here. You have 4 good outs for sure and possible 3 more but is it worth it? You would have still had 10BB and plenty of fold equity.
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The Villian ended up having AKo so knowing that, I felt even worse about the call thinking about it over the last two days. I’ll agree I should have c-bet, he would have jammed regardless but it would have been a much stronger move when he’s 3 bet jamming and maybe could have let myself get away. I’m not ashamed to say I misplayed my hand here, that’s what learning is. I still had good enough equity for it to not be a punt at least almost a 50/50 flip but I agree I should have got away and lived to fight another pot. Thanks for the input!
 
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I think you are spot on with the C-bet; a jam raise seems like a stronger play and might let you get away from it. You can't expect AK with the stack sizes. I'm surprised he didn't come over the top and jam PF.
 
Matt Vaughan

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Frankly, I don't even love min opening preflop off of 15bb and I'd be more likely to just open jam, or fold if I think I'll be called too wide behind.

As played, why are we checking the flop in the first place? If we don't feel comfortable check/calling it off, then we shouldn't even allow BTN to bet in the first place because sometimes he should even have bluffs, and we don't mind just taking the pot down right now.

If you DO check flop you can never fold. As you discovered, you have so much equity, it would be absolutely horrible to fold at this point. And it has almost nothing to do with whether you want to "make day 2 or play for the win" imo - it's much more about the chips already in the pot and the equity your hand has against the villain's range. You're not close enough to the money to start altering your play significantly from chipEV. Meaning if an action wins the most chips as compared to other actions, you should take that action. Here, calling definitely is better than folding.
 
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To win tournaments an accumulate chips you have to take gambles and win flips. Unfortunately you didn't win here but you have to get it in with the equity you have.
Like others have said I prefer a just a cbet as you have all the strong hands in your range as you raised UTG but either way you shouldn't be folding here.

Somedays you win these others you don't just the way tournaments are.
 
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JPainTrainSicko

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Scourrge said:
Frankly, I don't even love min opening preflop off of 15bb and I'd be more likely to just open jam, or fold if I think I'll be called too wide behind.

As played, why are we checking the flop in the first place? If we don't feel comfortable check/calling it off, then we shouldn't even allow BTN to bet in the first place because sometimes he should even have bluffs, and we don't mind just taking the pot down right now.

If you DO check flop you can never fold. As you discovered, you have so much equity, it would be absolutely horrible to fold at this point. And it has almost nothing to do with whether you want to "make day 2 or play for the win" imo - it's much more about the chips already in the pot and the equity your hand has against the villain's range. You're not close enough to the money to start altering your play significantly from chipEV. Meaning if an action wins the most chips as compared to other actions, you should take that action. Here, calling definitely is better than folding.
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+++++ On everything said here.

To emphasize further, remove the notion of bagging for day 2. It is fine to set target goals and intentions but when playing in hand this should not be a factor. Unless as Matt said bubble or other pay jump issues are at stake also.
 
Ryan Laplante

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Cbet flop and happily get this in.
 
Jacki Burkhart

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I'm ripping pre or folding pre so I don't really have post flop considerations to think about here....but if I did get here post flop....

I'm just Cbetting and calling it off. if he flats my cbet I jam all turns, bricks and nuts alike.

remove the notion of "bagging" as an inflection point. It's NOT. Recongize that for weak players they will care about bagging so you can possibly exploit that; but we're not weak players are we? no. We should not be affected by purely social or emotional circumstances that have no monetary value to us. If we are nearing the money bubble it is a legitimate inflection point. so if you are 40 players from the money or 4 players from the money would be interesting to know. if it's 4 players from money I'm leaning towards a fold pre. if it's 40 players from the money it's a more clear jam.
 
Vilgeoforc

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It is difficult to give advice to players with such limits). The continuation bet or check on the flop depends on villain. But I wouldn't call 26,000.
 
gorbonz2020

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I mean your abousoluty right your going for win me I told which like you say if u bag ur screwed kinda so I think your move was what u felt was the right move and in reality it is or I can say it was not wrong move.
 
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Just Blayze said:
Okay so I’m looking for a little insight on a hand I played this weekend in a 500$ tournament at my local casino. I sat’d in for $80 on Friday before the tourney Saturday.
We’re on the 2nd to last level of the day before we bag, last level being 1500/3000 and I’m sitting at about 36k. Wake up utg with A10h and raise to 5k, mind you this level is 1200/2400. Button flats and we see a flop heads up, it comes K6h Js. I check and the Villian jams for 26k.
I go into the tank for a few minutes and eventually put in the call. Drawing for any heart or Q but I brick out. The more I think about it the more I feel bad about the call but at the time my mindset was this.
Next level my stacks going to 10BB effective and as much as I would like to bag for day 2 I’m playing for the win. Not to scrape by to get felted early on day 2. I ran it around 47-53% so it wasn’t a punt necessarily. If I had made the double up there I’m looking good going into day 2. Also to add a little info on the Villian, older guy, local reg but still fairly rec. I’ve seen him 3bet Jam with 2’s so I mean he’s pretty lagy on a board with bad texture. I feel like I still could have had two overs going into the hand pre.
What are your guy’s opinions? If I’m missing anything please feel free to let me know, any feedback is appreciated.
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Hello,


Busting the tourney is extremely disappointing and will always suck. You played this well. Like you said 10bb. You needed to double up for day 2 and this was your spot. Just didn't go your way this time.
 
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ibetmyho

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You should be cbetting flop. You're raising UTG with a short stack, the K high boards are going to be a lot better for your range, and also you have flopped a very strong board for your hand. Once you cbet, then you are happy to get it in.
 
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fundiver199

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It would be great, if people looked at the date of the original post before replying. This thread for instance is two years old, so OP most likely will not benefit from any additional replies. Anyways since I am here on to the hand. There seem to be a bit of confusion about the suits in the hand, but I assume, board was Kh6hJs with Hero holding AhTh, so that Hero flopped the nut flushdraw with a gutshot and an overcard.

In that case there is no way, I ever get away from the hand with a 15BB starting stack, and if Villain also connected with the flop, it just is, what it is. I do prefer to C-bet though for fold equity. If Hero only had a gutshot with an overcard, then i prefer to check-fold and live to fight the next day. ATo is also not good enough to open UTG at full ring.
 
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