$.50 NLHE MTT: Too Passive?

Posting a few hands for review, just looking for feedback and other opinions...this is another.

Winning Poker Network (Yatahay) - 4000/8000 NL - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (CO): 26.14 BB
BTN: 30.87 BB (VPIP: 24.00, PFR: 23.40, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 51)
SB: 0.27 BB (VPIP: 13.33, PFR: 11.90, 3Bet Preflop: 17.65, Hands: 45)
BB: 23.26 BB (VPIP: 13.04, PFR: 13.64, 3Bet Preflop: 16.67, Hands: 23)
UTG: 0.78 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 23)
MP: 21.97 BB (VPIP: 37.50, PFR: 28.13, 3Bet Preflop: 20.00, Hands: 34)

6 players post ante of 0.1 BB, SB posts SB 0.17 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.77 BB) Hero has 8:spade: J:spade:

fold, fold, Hero raises to 2 BB, BTN calls 2 BB, fold

Flop: (5.77 BB, 3 players) A:spade: K:spade: J:diamond:
Hero checks, BTN checks

Turn: (5.77 BB, 3 players) 7:diamond:
Hero checks, BTN bets 1 BB, Hero calls 1 BB

River: (7.77 BB, 3 players) 4:diamond:
Hero checks, BTN checks

Hero shows 8:spade: J:spade: (One Pair, Jacks)
(Pre 37%, Flop 46%, Turn 29%)
BTN shows 9:heart: A:club: (One Pair, Aces)
(Pre 43%, Flop 52%, Turn 60%)
SB shows 2:spade: 7:spade: (One Pair, Sevens)
(Pre 20%, Flop 2%, Turn 12%)
BTN wins 7.77 BB

Villain Player Pool matters

Jon Poker said:

Posting a few hands for review, just looking for feedback and other opinions...this is another.

Winning Poker Network (Yatahay) - 4000/8000 NL - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (CO): 26.14 BB
BTN: 30.87 BB (VPIP: 24.00, PFR: 23.40, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 51)
SB: 0.27 BB (VPIP: 13.33, PFR: 11.90, 3Bet Preflop: 17.65, Hands: 45)
BB: 23.26 BB (VPIP: 13.04, PFR: 13.64, 3Bet Preflop: 16.67, Hands: 23)
UTG: 0.78 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 23)
MP: 21.97 BB (VPIP: 37.50, PFR: 28.13, 3Bet Preflop: 20.00, Hands: 34)

6 players post ante of 0.1 BB, SB posts SB 0.17 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.77 BB) Hero has 8♠ J♠

fold, fold, Hero raises to 2 BB, BTN calls 2 BB, fold

Flop: (5.77 BB, 3 players) A♠ K♠ J♦
Hero checks, BTN checks

Turn: (5.77 BB, 3 players) 7♦
Hero checks, BTN bets 1 BB, Hero calls 1 BB

River: (7.77 BB, 3 players) 4♦
Hero checks, BTN checks

Hero shows 8♠ J♠ (One Pair, Jacks)
(Pre 37%, Flop 46%, Turn 29%)
BTN shows 9♥ A♣ (One Pair, Aces)
(Pre 43%, Flop 52%, Turn 60%)
SB shows 2♠ 7♠ (One Pair, Sevens)
(Pre 20%, Flop 2%, Turn 12%)
BTN wins 7.77 BB

Click to expand...

Thank U 4 Posting

In this spot we have to ask would this villain fold an ace here? So we must have data on this villain to know they would fold to an all-in river bet.

bluffing villains requires the villains to not just call with top pair but to think that top pair can be losing and fold. All of the factors are here for you to bet bet shove except for the fact that we have no idea if this player will just call us with no idea what they are doing.

If that is what you are seeing these players do (not fold) then you cannot be raising
J8 suited with your stack size because part of the J8's equity is fold equity. Otherwise what happened to you is what happens you make a bad pair vs a player never folding any over card to your pair.

Hope this helps

You played this hand well actually. Not too passive if you ask me, it's true that you could bet before turn but it would just determine different decisions for you on the next move, it could make you bet harder easily and i don't think that villain would fold here anything in range of half pot raise.

I just think at lower stakes here - opponents calling with A9o to a CO open is pretty loose and once they flop top pair I do not think they are going to be inclined to fold. My thoughts in this spot was that I have plenty of equity - I can check-call to realize my equity and if they just happened to miss the river or have an underpair - I will be good at showdown anyway.

why check on this flop? you hit Bottom pair and 2nd nuts flushdraw.
You have to bet for value here.

eetenor said:

In this spot we have to ask would this villain fold an ace here? So we must have data on this villain to know they would fold to an all-in river bet.

Bluffing villains requires the villains to not just call with top pair but to think that top pair can be losing and fold. All of the factors are here for you to bet bet shove except for the fact that we have no idea if this player will just call us with no idea what they are doing.

Click to expand...

Jon Poker said:

I just think at lower stakes here - opponents calling with A9o to a CO open is pretty loose and once they flop top pair I do not think they are going to be inclined to fold

Click to expand...

I think so too. at such low stakes, it's hard to bluff them off their Ace.

Cbet on flop 33% for value. Turn second Barrel for me half pot or 2/3. He can have the King which you can bring to the fold with a second barrel on this Board. When he calls i would give up the river with the 4d. I think is not a good card to Bluffing.

This is made slightly awkward with the SB all in blind.... granted I still think this is less about passive/agressive play, and more about the actual line we take....

Frist off I'm not worried about SB, they have what they have right? They cant put any more money in the pot and cant dictate action, and thier share of the pot is only about a 10th of the whole pot....

Even though I think the resualt based off actual hands would be the same in almost all situations. We shouldnt be resualts oriented. Instead focus on possible ranges of Vil on the BTN.... with that said, our ranges are pretty much identical, diffrence is they are capped, so the very top of thier range isnt there (AA-88, AK, AQs-AJs) while we still have the top of our range.... but we flopped 2nd to the Nuts draw, and we are OOP.... when on a draw like this we should always be asking ourselves, "if we bet, and they raise us, what are we gonna do?"

This should be a very cut and dry anwser, if we get raise, we have to call, and we are checking all turns. 9 out of 10 times if we get raised they will fire another barrel, and if we miss (which will happen at least 75% of the time) we have to fold, cause we wont be getting odds to see a river...

So with that said, I think check is good. The next question we need to ask ourselves is, "if we check, and they bet are we Calling or check raising?"

I would say call (up to a pot sized bet in this situation, in most situations up to 70%), because we still have the possiblity for the 2nd best hand. (We block the Royal), and we are still losing to Sets, and Striaghts. If we do hit we want to keep those hands in there along with pairs and 2 pairs. Knowing a raise isnt gonna scared those hands off.

With the turn coming 7d blank, and they checked back, we can eliminate hands like 2 pair, sets, AT. So that leaves us getting value from draws that will probably showdown at river if we hit. While eliminating almost everything that can beat us (besides A9, and A8s, A6s-A2s, and K8s-KJ, KQo) all those hands might fold to a big bet on the turn 60% to 2/3 of the pot (3.5 to 4BBs) cause if that's what they have they need to have thier suit to be dimonds for them to have have a draw to go with thier pair, and chances are if they have any of those combos in dimonds. Vil will probably raise your turn bet. Since that's only 1 of the 8 combos they could have (I think, not sure if my math is right thier) we have a lot of fold equity to get a better hand to fold here, with a chance to get a bad call, and river 2nd to the nuts....

As played, we should be check raising this min bet every time. If we get called we can check call rivers. But I'm confadent a check raise gets A9o to fold.... or at least very least tank real hard, and should be folding.... while when we bet turn like we should a A9 should also be folding to a big bet... just too much we could have in this spot after a check check flop for them to comtinue....

As played we have no choice but to check the river with bottom pair....

Villain Read.

Jon Poker said:

I just think at lower stakes here - opponents calling with A9o to a CO open is pretty loose and once they flop top pair I do not think they are going to be inclined to fold. My thoughts in this spot was that I have plenty of equity - I can check-call to realize my equity and if they just happened to miss the river or have an underpair - I will be good at showdown anyway.

Click to expand...

Thank U 4 Posting

Your read of the situation seems correct. So the passive line is a viable line. If your villains are going to be passive but not fold- which many low stakes players are- equity realization is a better strategy because there is little fold equity. Stack size also matters here. Vs a non folding villain you can shove made flushes two pairs and trips and still get calls. So you are not giving up equity by not building pots early.

Hope this helps

A 2BB preflop raise villain in a position could call with any two cards, including a queen of ten odnomarsnye or worse peaks. Push in this situation would look a little strange. On the other hand, the villain has the same problems, he sees the same picture. Most likely he will fold, but not always. I think you did the right thing. You have a pretty decent stack, bluffing, even with 11 outs, it seems unreasonable to me.