$5.50 NLHE MTT Bounty: QQ, deep in the tournament with a in front. Did I overplay the ladies?

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bkkblues99

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$5.50 NLHE MTT Bounty: QQ, deep in the tournament with a in front. Did I overplay the ladies?

Villian Stats (VPIP/PFR/AF): 13/7/2

Two tables left. Hero's position was 9/16. 1st prize would be ~$800. Current payout $20. Villains bounty was $8. Hero's $23.


The villain had limped once earlier in the tournament and folded to a shove and a call behind him. I am sure he doesn't have a balanced limping range.


1. Was the 3X pre-flop raise too small? Should I have made it 4X? 5X? I know his range is mostly suited connectors + weak Broadways, so I am crushing that pre-flop. Should I still be raising 5X and push him out?


2. He donk leads on the god awful flop (for QQ). In my head , his range is mostly monster draws (like straight+flush draw) + 9s 10s JJs (less likely the way the hand played preflop). + J10s/J9s + 10 9s. To be honest, I din't think too long about his range after he donked the flop, I pretty much insta-shoved.


(Which I think is a mistake, not thinking before insta shoving in a tricky spot, not that it would have mattered in this particular hand.)


I can't see him playing his sets this way. Once he donk bets 1/3 pot, can we just call in this scary flop? There's no way we are folding to this, so I guess the question is are we flatting (Didn't make sense to me) or shoving?


P.S Don't insta-click the spoiler :p. Provide your analysis first and then see the spoiler. I think that way we all benefit more ;)


Poker Stars, $4.90 Buy-in (4,000/8,000 blinds, 1,200 ante) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 8 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

SB: 277,256 (34.7 bb)
BB: 559,065 (69.9 bb)
UTG+2: 268,560 (33.6 bb)
MP1: 255,627 (32 bb)
MP2: 190,380 (23.8 bb) (VP13/PFR7/AF2 63 Hands)
Hero (MP3): 235,897 (29.5 bb)
CO: 318,106 (39.8 bb)
BTN: 249,838 (31.2 bb)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with Q
heart4.gif
Q
diamond4.gif

2 folds, MP2 calls 8,000, Hero raises to 24,000, 4 folds, MP2 calls 16,000

Flop: (69,600) 6
heart4.gif
7
diamond4.gif
8
diamond4.gif
(2 players)
MP2 bets 24,000, Hero raises to 171,000, MP2 calls 141,180 and is all-in

Turn: (399,960) K
diamond4.gif
(2 players, 1 is all-in)
River: (399,960) 3
club4.gif
(2 players, 1 is all-in)

Results: 399,960 pot
Final Board: 6
heart4.gif
7
diamond4.gif
8
diamond4.gif
K
diamond4.gif
3
club4.gif

MP2 showed T
heart4.gif
9
heart4.gif
and won 399,960 (209,580 net)
Hero showed Q
heart4.gif
Q
diamond4.gif
and lost (-190,380 net)
 
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bkkblues99

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The title is, "QQ, Deep in the tournament with a *limper* in front"....I can't seem to find how to edit the title.
 
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quant1986

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The flop hits the caller range much better and this is a tricky spot.

If the donk bet size is larger, says 70%-80%, I would flat here and bluff later street with a diamond because in that case it is more like protection bet with two pairs+ but not flush draw.

33% pot size bet I would add Top pair with flush draw, flush draw and two pairs+ in villain range. If you are confident playing turn/river against TAG, then perhaps flat calling here but it would be even trickier to play if a diamond hits turn. Personally I would fold here given I would be left a crippled stack if beaten. If I had larger stack 40BB+, perhaps shoving here like what you did.
Also I am more inclined to 3bet larger preflop , possibly 3.5-4X as you still have position.
 
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bkkblues99

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The flop hits the caller range much better and this is a tricky spot.

If the donk bet size is larger, says 70%-80%, I would flat here and bluff later street with a diamond because in that case it is more like protection bet with two pairs+ but not flush draw.

33% pot size bet I would add Top pair with flush draw, flush draw and two pairs+ in villain range. If you are confident playing turn/river against TAG, then perhaps flat calling here but it would be even trickier to play if a diamond hits turn. Personally I would fold here given I would be left a crippled stack if beaten. If I had larger stack 40BB+, perhaps shoving here like what you did.
Also I am more inclined to 3bet larger preflop , possibly 3.5-4X as you still have position.
Well I wasn't even thinking about villain having any value hands (2 pairs+) the way the hand played out. I mean limp calling pre and then donking 1/3 pot? Yea I have seen that before, that's just air ball pretty much all the.

I mean he flopped the nuts (after limp calling a 3X) and bet into the pre flop raiser. That's not a very common line. Either kudos to him for a genius play or he got very lucky with a nutted flop + me basically just clicking buttons.

But I think the most thing is that when people take unusual lines, and specially deep in a tournament, it's always worth considering that even if it seems like the villain can't possibly "have it", for our tournament life, we should at least have stopped and thought about it a little more. Should have considered flatting. I wasn't going to and prolly won't fold against a single bet in a similar situation in the future.
 
ZenGreen

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Dont overthink, you played this fine. Havent looked at spoiler but you are crushing everything but coolers, You got the money in right, if he's drawing you got him to put his money in bad. If he flopped it, he is doing the same with oesd etc. If he flipped aa kk then its a cooler.

EDIT - Big deal he flopped it, next game. its very rare to flop a straight or flush so its just a cooler, He also calling youre all in with A9 K9 etc. youre beating everything except coolers, AND DONT PLAY THIS SPOT DIFFERENT NEXT TIME!!! - People cause more variance by playing spots differently then they would cause hands like this make them feel they always flop it

Also dont start calling this spot and then folding to a bet on the turn because of a king, if youre not prepared to do what you did this time, then you are better off folding and finding a spot more comfy.
 
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bkkblues99

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Dont overthink, you played this fine. Havent looked at spoiler but you are crushing everything but coolers, You got the money in right, if he's drawing you got him to put his money in bad. If he flopped it, he is doing the same with oesd etc. If he flipped aa kk then its a cooler.

EDIT - Big deal he flopped it, next game. its very rare to flop a straight or flush so its just a cooler, He also calling youre all in with A9 K9 etc. youre beating everything except coolers, AND DONT PLAY THIS SPOT DIFFERENT NEXT TIME!!! - People cause more variance by playing spots differently then they would cause hands like this make them feel they always flop it

Also dont start calling this spot and then folding to a bet on the turn because of a king, if youre not prepared to do what you did this time, then you are better off folding and finding a spot more comfy.
Yea that's pretty much what I think so too.
 
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bkkblues99

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I guess the only consideration might be that we are very deep in the tournament and hence maybe try to play little more passively in what it surely at the least a tricky spot? I am not sure.
 
elizeuof

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The villain's donkeybet indiques that he have a good draw, or a good hand but he has afraid of a draw, maybe he made this donkeybet searching for action and more chips, or just for expulse some draws.

if he had AA, KK, QQ or JJ I think he would have raised the preflop bet.

Poket pairs 22 until 88, suited and connectors are goods hands in bounty tournament, depending of the villain's image I be able to fold.
 
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bkkblues99

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The villain's donkeybet indiques that he have a good draw, or a good hand but he has afraid of a draw, maybe he made this donkeybet searching for action and more chips, or just for expulse some draws.

if he had AA, KK, QQ or JJ I think he would have raised the preflop bet.

Poket pairs 22 until 88, suited and connectors are goods hands in bounty tournament, depending of the villain's image I be able to fold.
Yea well that's the thing with donk bets. They can be very tricky and useful when done right. I wasn't sure if this particular villain has a balanced donk-bet range.

I assumed he took the standard donk-bet line (usually done by weak players to "find out where they are" with mostly weak pairs and or draws). I thought I am crushing that range, hence the shove.
 
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