$5.5 NLHE MTT: Raise Midpair and FD vs Turn donk?

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Larmuar

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admittetly, i'am just exploring the different advantages of raising turn. In this particulary case i concluded, the raise was not so good, because of the following reasoning:

If villains donk turn (even after CC flop) it is usually a lot stronger than if they just cbet Turn IP. Or would you ever donk something lower than toppair there? And if yes, why?
So, my raise didnt have any fold equity.

Would you not recommend flop & turn semibluff raises in general, or is it a powerful tool to make yourself more unpredictable? Maybe someone has a nice argument for one or the other side ;)?

888 Poker - 800/1600 Ante 200 NL - Holdem - 8 players

BTN: 14.51 BB (VPIP: 19.27, PFR: 14.12, 3Bet Preflop: 7.58, hands: 192)
SB: 18.81 BB (VPIP: 17.86, PFR: 14.12, 3Bet Preflop: 7.37, Hands: 283)
BB: 135.76 BB (VPIP: 14.71, PFR: 8.82, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 34)
UTG: 27.25 BB (VPIP: 24.14, PFR: 15.52, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 59)
Hero (UTG+1): 57.48 BB
MP: 87.54 BB (VPIP: 18.04, PFR: 14.24, 3Bet Preflop: 6.54, Hands: 684)
MP+1: 14.89 BB (VPIP: 14.04, PFR: 7.02, 3Bet Preflop: 5.56, Hands: 57)
CO: 28.35 BB (VPIP: 13.04, PFR: 4.55, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 46)

8 players post ante of 0.13 BB, SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 2.5 BB) Hero has 9:club: 7:club:

fold, Hero raises to 2 BB, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, BB calls 1 BB

Flop: (5.5 BB, 2 players) 9:diamond: 5:club: T:diamond:
BB checks, Hero checks

Turn: (5.5 BB, 2 players) K:club:
BB bets 2.75 BB, Hero raises to 9.25 BB, BB calls 6.5 BB

River: (24 BB, 2 players) 8:heart:
BB checks, Hero checks

BB shows A:club: K:spade: (One Pair, Kings)
(Pre 61%, Flop 23%, Turn 70%)
Hero mucks 9:club: 7:club: (One Pair, Nines)
(Pre 39%, Flop 77%, Turn 30%)
BB wins 24 BB
 
Matt Vaughan

Matt Vaughan

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First off, I hate to harp on it cause no one ever wants to hear this, but preflop is just so uncalled for. UTG+1 is way too early to be adding a suited gapper in. 98s I can get behind so long as your opponents are weak and we have a big big skill edge. But 97s performs much much worse and it's really difficult to make that make sense.

I think the issue with raising the turn has less to do with our actual hand and more to do with what we represent, and what villain is likely to have here. When villain leads turn, it's hardly even a donk bet since we didn't cbet flop, however the turn card should be seen as significantly better for our range than his, since we'll have way more of the AK, KQ, and KJ type hands in our range that we'd reasonably check back the flop with.

We also clearly have so much equity here, and we even have a decent amount of showdown value, so I think a call here is definitely acceptable.

As played I think the river give up is good, but again I think the turn raise is suspect, and COULD tilt the river play to actually being a better raise spot since we no longer have the aforementioned showdown value, and villain is usually not going to have sets and straights I don't think. So blasting off MIGHT make sense to fold him off his top pair + gutshot type holdings, but I'm just unsure if it will work, frankly.
 
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Meepomancer1122

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First of all, I don't think you should be opening 97s from EP (unless you are the big stack in the bubble), especially with 3 reshove stacks. It's very weak, and plays poorly.
Second of all, I think you could've c-bet the flop, since you had a lot of equity and backdoor flush draw, could've denied the other player the equity of a free card/forced him to call when he was behind, or the other player could still have called with a 5
The turn was hardly a donk, since you didn't c-bet flop, but since you are asking about the raise, I guess you could either just call, see the river and evaluate, or make a smaller raise in order to be the agressor and be able to check the river if you don't hit the flush
 
GreenDaddy1

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I'm not opening here either.

But having opened, I am firing a c bet on the flop vs a BB defence and I'm not unhappy if villain folds seeing as I only have middle pair. Thinking in terms of what you are representing when you open UTG+1, that is going to include AA, KK, QQ & JJ which are all overpairs to this board, plus TT which has just made a set. Of course it depends a bit on your table image. There should be some decent fold equity to your flop c bet and it is one of those pots I'm happy to get away with a small win, rather than any kind of loss. A flop c bet is a good way to achieve that given an average UTG+1 range vs a (typically) wide BB defence range.

As played personally I just call on the turn. I can appreciate you do have some equity there with the flush draw, and you might be representing a hand stronger than you have, but is a not a spot I'd be using the semi bluff myself. Having not c bet the flop, if villain has any decent connection to the board I don't see him folding to your reraise on the turn. I don't think it is an absolutely terrible move having said that, and you'd of course look a genius if you pull off the flush and he is holding a hand that doesn't beat you. But given the way it played, villain hud stats and the fact it is the micros, villain's lead out on the turn rings alarm bells for me and the turn check just seems the better option.

I'm not against semi bluffing draws, it can be a good tactic, particularly when you already have some showdown equity. I just don't think this is the right spot for it given all the elements in play.
 
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Ryan Laplante

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The open is a little loose, its not horrible, but requires your post flop game to be verrrrrry good.

Flop: Cbet 1/3 pot.

Turn: The lead here is pretty strong, i dont hate raise with this combo tho.

River:Giving up vs most opponents.
 
puzzlefish

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I'm not a big fan of your 2bb 3bet preflop. It gives zero information to you if villain calls it. You're oop and making a risky play, so you need to put more chips in to isolate your opponents' range. If you're going to play passively you may as well have shut it down on the turn and saved your chips. Your opening to take the pot was on a strong cbet on the flop or otherwise risk a call down on the river.. which I think with AK your villain would not lay it down.
 
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bkzx

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With two players playing short stack, I think 97s doesn't qualify as an Open Raise from UTG+1. You are deep, but not enough to call a shove, because it will cost you a lot, I mean 30% of your stack is a big portion of your chips.

On the flop you should bet, you have middle pair, and a back door flush draw, specially against the BB who is playing 3x times your stack, and will be more aggresive than you think.

Check raising the turn is not profitable on this spot, because given the bb's stack, he may re-raise you instantly..
 
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Tuan

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Uhm, I would not open here with 97s because we are in EP. However, after we raised, the flop come 92T, we have to bet here because we have could have A10+, KQs,10Js,910s, 98s, 77+ in our range and this flop favors us. But we check, and he bet on the Turn K; I don't think we can raise here because we lost to a 10 and a K; we can't fold here but I like a call. However, we decided to raised and got call on the turn; at this point, we are representing 99, 1010, AK+, KK, AA where we can slow play on the flop. On the river, I would have to move all in, putting maxium pressure on 1 pair hand. However, we checked and lost a big pot.
 
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