$5.5 NLHE MTT Deep Stacked: AKs vs 2 (pre flop)

vox1er

vox1er

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888Poker, $5 + $0.50 - Hold'em No Limit - 200/400 (50 ante) - 8 players

no info about villains

UTG: 34,684 (87 bb)
UTG+1: 10,889 (27 bb)
MP: 6,558 (16 bb)
MP+1 (Hero): 13,992 (35 bb)
CO: 4,936 (12 bb)
BU: 41,825 (105 bb)
SB: 13,402 (34 bb)
BB: 20,981 (52 bb)

Pre-Flop: (1,000) Hero is MP+1 with K A
fold, UTG+1 raises to 800, fold, Hero 3-bets to 2,000, fold, fold, SB 4-bets to 13,352 (all-in), fold, UTG+1 calls 10,039 (all-in),
Pot = 24,478


Should I call here?
 
Jon Poker

Jon Poker

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If this tournament means alot to your bankroll and is maybe one outside of our buy in level - we can consider the fold leaving ourselves with 30bb which is enough to find another spot or two.

For me however - if I am well rolled for this tournament, I am just not folding AKs. My hand is a top tier hand and does very well agaisnt under pairs. AQs makes this move from the SB and we obviously have them dominated. We block combos of AA and KK so if we run into one of those it's just a cooler anyhow.

Anyhow, personally I am just not folding AK in tournaments that I am well rolled for under the $10 buy in level - it's not saying that people are ignorant at these levels or they never wake up with a hand - the simple fact is at these levels and under, you will find the most players making the most mistakes. No one is thinking about ranges or how the UTG player was the one who open raised and then got 3bet from mp - at this level players are staring at AJ in the SB and saying "this is the one! I am never folding this hand no matter what!"

So to conclude - at these levels, if I am well rolled for this tournament, I am never folding AKs without a deadset read on my opponent(s). The hand is just simply too strong. If one player has QQ and the other has JJ - so be it, AK is still doing fairly well vs those holdings. I am snap calling in this spot and letting the cards fall where they may
 
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killosaby

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What a killer situation Vox1er ! Like Jon Poker said " ... don't fold and you hold a couple blockers to UTG +1 and SB premium hands." Also consider the equity of AKs in this series of events; its almost 51% compared with the UTG+1 and SB equity at about 24%.
 
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fundiver199

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I will say, that this is generally a spot, where you can fold, especially when you made the 3-bet so small. You only have 5BB invested and have to risk another 29, which is almost your entire stack. If you call and lose to SB, you are essentially out of the tournament.

Also a cold 4-bet against an EP open and a 3-bet is an extremely strong action, so a lot of players will have a range here, which AKs simply does not do well against. For some it will only be KK and AA, and for others it will be QQ, KK, AA and AK. And even in the latter case, where he is actually jamming 3% of hands, we are not getting the right price.

For this to be a good call, we need SB to be jamming something like 5% of hands or even wider. And unless he is some kind of maniac, most people are simply not. So while I understand it, if you called, and would not consider it a mistake, I think folding is the better decision here against most opponents.
 
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Brawo

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You have 35bigs, you already invest 2,5 in the pot, it is not a lot.

Open from UTG is always scary, because opponent often doesn't care about other players. You made a 3-bet 2,5xopen (I prefer little big to 3 - 3,25x but never mind it is quite ok too, doesn't matter in this spot) This 3-bet looks very strong because you don't care about open from UTG.

SB watched yours decissions and decided make a big 4-bet (34bb) Why he didin't do 4-bet like 7bb? Probably he is a weak player. You saw call from open-raiser hmm intriguing.

1,5bb (preflop) + 2,5bb (your bet) + 34bb (SB stack) + 27(UTG stack) = 65bb

So, you have to pay 34bb (one bb in the back) to win 65+34=99b
Pot odds are 34/99 * 100% = 35%
You have an ace so you are blocking AA, AK, AQ, AJ, KK but it is not impossible

UTG range --> pairs JJ and above AKo/s AQo/s (4,5% start range)
SB range --> excatly the same for me (but logically narrower)
like you wrote, we don't know anything about them so it is hard to narrow them ranges

In this spot we have here around 33% chance to win this hand, little less than pot odds offer us, it depends from opponents, I don't know them, so I probably fold this hand, they can steal some (this will often be the case) outs.

Summary, probably I would make fold if it is freezout and I won't have money for re-enter. Good luck.
 
TheDude6622

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It's honestly a coin flip, just like the situation would end up being. You have a monster holding and can even beat aces with the right flop. It's a 5.5 tourney that doesn't really break the bank. I say call.

Although, I have been put in this spot in live tournaments with AK suited, and my fold pre-flop ended up being correct, facing AA and 10s, with the 10s flopping a set.

A lot of people consider AKs to be the nuts, when it is not and not even a made hand.
 
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fundiver199

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Open from UTG is always scary, because opponent often doesn't care about other players. You made a 3-bet 2,5xopen (I prefer little big to 3 - 3,25x but never mind it is quite ok too, doesn't matter in this spot) This 3-bet looks very strong because you don't care about open from UTG. SB watched yours decissions and decided make a big 4-bet (34bb)

Exactly. Its great, there are different opinions about a hand, because it show, poker is not dead, and since we dont know SBs range, nobody is per definition "right" or "wrong". But I do think, many people misjudge, how wide a typical players range will be, when they sit in SB with a 34BB stack and face an UTG open plus a small 3-bet of that open. There is really no incentive for SB to get involved here, unless he has an absolute monster hand.
 
Jon Poker

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There is really no incentive for SB to get involved here, unless he has an absolute monster hand.


I agree with this whole heartedly - BUT, I still think we have to consider the buy in level and the fact that the lowest levels contain the most players whom are making the most mistakes. I am not saying this player in particular is bad but I've been 4bet by 22 before. This past sunday night I 3bet jammed KK from MP and the CO 4bet jammed and had me covered. I just knew I ran into aces and it was over for me - nope! The guy isolated me with 66s! This was also a $5 ACR event. In another example I 3 bet KK from the btn preflop, got called and went to a flop that came down QK8 - the dude open jams 2x pot - I snap him off and hes got 33s...insane punt!! I'm not saying every player at these levels is this bad, but I am saying that there are enough tools like this to take note of.

The logic and the merit to folding this hand due to the action in front are spot on - the SB shove looks super strong - but like I said, even against QQ we are doing ok with around 40-45% equity (heads up). At the lower buy in tournaments, in events where I am well bankrolled - mid game, far away from the $$ bubble - I am just not folding AK without a deadset read that my opponent is ONLY shoving AA or KK (which we block) in this spot. I have a top tier hand which plays well against all of the underpairs and I am looking to take advantage of players who are making mistakes in these spots. I dont mind running into AA or KK once in a while here - I run into pairs I flip with, AQs and other inferior hands enough for me personally to employee this strategy.

I think once we start to get up around $10 buy ins on most sites we start to see players who are definitely more competent and pools making far less mistakes. Even AQs in the SB in this particular hand example is probably not squeezing given then action in front...hell they may even fold! I would if I were the SB in that situation in a higher buy in event.

Anyhow that's just my personal opinion here - I dont fold this hand a ton at these levels simply because the player pool is making more mistakes than we know and we take advantage of that by not over folding to actions that would normally scare the devil out of a competent player.
 
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fundiver199

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I can certainly understand your point of view, and in real time I rely heavily on my HUD for a decision like this. If I see any kind of loose or wild tendencies in the player, then I am not going anywhere with AK either and even less with AKs. But if this SB player is the typical TAG-regular, which is the most common player type online, then I just don’t think, he is 4-betting wide enough.

As for the stakes I don’t consider a 5,5$ tournament to be like the bottom of the barrel. Sure there are still fish in these, but this is probably one of the two daily “big fish” tournaments on 888 Poker, and then the top price is in the 700-1.200$ ballpark. So there is kind of serious money at stake at least for a micro player, and this hand happened near the end of late registration, when blot players had more than doubled their original 5.000 chip stack.
 
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