$400 NLHE MTT Deep Stacked: Turn the nut flush and....?

Jacki Burkhart

Jacki Burkhart

long winded rambler...
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 12, 2013
Total posts
2,960
Awards
6
Chips
0
This is a venetian deepstacks monday tourney.

Blinds are 500/1,000 with a 100 ante.

I've amassed a big stack ~100k and this table is pretty easy.

I raise in the HJ with :as4::9s4: to 2,200. CO flats. He is the only other stack who threatens me we are about same size stack he was recently moved here so I don’t know much about him but he seems decent and tightish.

Pot 6,800 Flop :8s4::6s4::6c4:

I Cbet 3,500. He flats

Pot 13,800. Turn :10s4:

I decide to check/trap. It seems like no matter what he has checking is best because: If he’s got something like a straight draw I want to give him a chance to improve, if he’s got a pair or trips I don’t wanna scare him off…if he’s got a flush I’m in a dream situation and can count on him putting bets in at some points. and if he was simply floating my Cbet my only chance of making chips is to show weakness and let him bet.
But….sadly he checks behind.

River :10h4:

Not a great card. But also I doubt he called my flop bet with a T unless he was floating. And I doubt he has very many 6s in his preflop flatting range. So it’s not the absolute worst but obviously I can’t bet out and hope to get called by too much that I’m beating...so I check.

He bets 10k into 13,800. This is a polarizing bet. I don’t think much about it at all and toss in the call. Seems like a trivial call to me; I have the best possible bluff catcher. He turns over Quad Tens! I guess I lost the minimum; thank goodness for that river T which totally killed his action.

Question: this river is an auto call spot, right? At what bet size do we consider folding to a river bet? Also the turn….what do we think about checking turn?
 
weralomos

weralomos

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 26, 2016
Total posts
340
Awards
1
Chips
1
I think a river 10 this is a very bad card for flush
 
Jacki Burkhart

Jacki Burkhart

long winded rambler...
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 12, 2013
Total posts
2,960
Awards
6
Chips
0
I think a river 10 this is a very bad card for flush

well...yeah I know it's not a good card. and yet that was the river that came and I still have to make my decisions. I think just folding everytime the board runs out bad for your hand is not a great strategy.

still...this might be a fold. let's talk it out! :)
 
A

AlexTheOwl

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 22, 2017
Total posts
860
Chips
0
I definitely call the river bet. I'd fold at about 20k, thinking that villain is more likely to be over-betting to take advantage of my possible willingness to call with a flush or lesser full house than to be over-betting to maximize fold equity.

I only play live tourneys a few times a year, though I have been playing for many years.
In the online tournaments and in 2/5 live games I play, competent players checking when making a flush on the turn has become extremely standard. It fools almost no one, and leaves only one street to bet for value. I've mostly stopped doing it.

Here you are OOP, have only one opponent, and this low board probably has not connected with the villain's pocket cards, but it is wet enough to possibly inspire the villain to bluff. I like the check.

Well played.
 
S

seve13061984

Rising Star
Bronze Level
Joined
Feb 28, 2014
Total posts
17
Chips
0
dont like the check OTT because u loose value from other hands like trips 66, 8-x , straight draws , flush . Think if ur oponent go on a straight draw or a flush draw ott. if he dont makes the flush or the straight he would not pay ur bet OTR. so that s why u should bet the turn to extract value and denying him odds to complete the hand . To give free cards is a huge mistake in poker. The river bet is a tough question but i think i would call. By the way good move the check OTr.
 
W

wildjoker68

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 9, 2017
Total posts
102
Chips
0
I fold A 9, I lost way more than I ever could make back with it. there is almost no way to connect a 9 to an ace with the flop. so that leaves you fishing for disaster most of the time, but since they were suited and you hit your draw, you thought it was a good idea, not thinking about him calling a pre flop raise, what did you think he would have to be holding to call that? another ace maybe, could he be holding K Q, if he's holding a pair and hits his set, his full house beat you. I can't count the times I have lost with an ace high flush against a full house. the pair on the flop should have been enough to start thinking about folding. if you decide on betting there to see if he folds and he calls, it's time to think about shutting the bets off until your hand improves, and don't put another dime in that pot on the turn. even if you have a 33% chance of hitting your flush that's a 78% chance you won't. you just need to fold and wait for another good hand, or roll the dice hoping for lightning to strike. Peace" and Happy Bank Rolling....
 
Jacki Burkhart

Jacki Burkhart

long winded rambler...
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 12, 2013
Total posts
2,960
Awards
6
Chips
0
I fold A 9, I lost way more than I ever could make back with it. there is almost no way to connect a 9 to an ace with the flop. so that leaves you fishing for disaster most of the time, but since they were suited and you hit your draw, you thought it was a good idea, not thinking about him calling a pre flop raise, what did you think he would have to be holding to call that? another ace maybe, could he be holding K Q, if he's holding a pair and hits his set, his full house beat you. I can't count the times I have lost with an ace high flush against a full house. the pair on the flop should have been enough to start thinking about folding. if you decide on betting there to see if he folds and he calls, it's time to think about shutting the bets off until your hand improves, and don't put another dime in that pot on the turn. even if you have a 33% chance of hitting your flush that's a 78% chance you won't. you just need to fold and wait for another good hand, or roll the dice hoping for lightning to strike. Peace" and Happy Bank Rolling....

So...only play the nuts....got it. :D
 
F

fernandoprrt

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 4, 2017
Total posts
362
Chips
0
What if you check the flop with nut flush draw. Maybe he would bet and you raised, after that he could have fold. Its an insteresting scenario, because he can be trying to steal with any two cards or with a good hand. I prefer to win small pots with a big stack, so I liked the check on the turn. River was a bad card, but he can bet with an Ace sometimes trying to get value on the river, but his bet was really big, always polarized, he could had a worst flush, a full house or quads. I can fold my nut flush sometimes when the board is two paired, but I will have more calls with the nut flush, so I think it can be in either way.
 
Bozovicdj

Bozovicdj

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
May 13, 2017
Total posts
1,501
Awards
15
Chips
0
I would probably play the hand exact same way you did, C-bet flop, check turn and then check/call river with that second T.. Probably would have folded to some over bets like 20K+ (maybe not even then :D)
What if you check the flop with nut flush draw. Maybe he would bet and you raised, after that he could have fold. Its an insteresting scenario, because he can be trying to steal with any two cards or with a good hand.
Don't think check/re-raising would be good here, but maybe check/call, but then that opens hero to aggressive plays inclining him to fold a better hand eventually.
If hero re-raised on the flop worse hands are folding for sure, better are always calling or 4-betting in which case you need to lay it down or gamble and hope to catch that flush.
 
EvertonGirl

EvertonGirl

Professional Fish
Loyaler
Joined
Feb 22, 2013
Total posts
8,421
Awards
3
GB
Chips
99
I liked how you played it, yep the river sure was a beeatch as a FH got there and UL for you quads got there :(
 
Jacki Burkhart

Jacki Burkhart

long winded rambler...
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 12, 2013
Total posts
2,960
Awards
6
Chips
0
I liked how you played it, yep the river sure was a beeatch as a FH got there and UL for you quads got there :(

thanks. actually it was lucky for me that quads got there. he had a boat on the turn. if the board hadn't double paired on river I would have led out and he would have raised and I would have called basically any amount. it was a terrible river card for him and a lucky one for me!
 
Ryan Laplante

Ryan Laplante

CardsChat Pro
Silver Level
Joined
Jul 2, 2014
Total posts
914
Awards
5
Chips
1
This is a venetian deepstacks monday tourney.

Blinds are 500/1,000 with a 100 ante.

I've amassed a big stack ~100k and this table is pretty easy.

I raise in the HJ with :as4::9s4: to 2,200. CO flats. He is the only other stack who threatens me we are about same size stack he was recently moved here so I don’t know much about him but he seems decent and tightish.

Pot 6,800 Flop :8s4::6s4::6c4:

I Cbet 3,500. He flats

Pot 13,800. Turn :10s4:

I decide to check/trap. It seems like no matter what he has checking is best because: If he’s got something like a straight draw I want to give him a chance to improve, if he’s got a pair or trips I don’t wanna scare him off…if he’s got a flush I’m in a dream situation and can count on him putting bets in at some points. and if he was simply floating my Cbet my only chance of making chips is to show weakness and let him bet.
But….sadly he checks behind.

River :10h4:

Not a great card. But also I doubt he called my flop bet with a T unless he was floating. And I doubt he has very many 6s in his preflop flatting range. So it’s not the absolute worst but obviously I can’t bet out and hope to get called by too much that I’m beating...so I check.

He bets 10k into 13,800. This is a polarizing bet. I don’t think much about it at all and toss in the call. Seems like a trivial call to me; I have the best possible bluff catcher. He turns over Quad Tens! I guess I lost the minimum; thank goodness for that river T which totally killed his action.

Question: this river is an auto call spot, right? At what bet size do we consider folding to a river bet? Also the turn….what do we think about checking turn?
Well played for the right reasons. :)
 
froggeedogs

froggeedogs

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Mar 16, 2017
Total posts
291
Chips
0
think this was well played. flat calling the river was the only was to go. I think I wold have naturally put him on a boat, but he would have to show me for sure and 10K seemed reasonable price to pay.
 
U

uavissar

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 2, 2017
Total posts
129
Chips
0
No way to fold there but its not a snap call. You have the best bluff catcher, but still- its only a bluff catcher. At that depth I don't see a fold.

I don't like is the check on the turn. You are counting on him to make a move to get more value from your very strong hand- and as you said, he checked.
Why not make the most of your hand then and there? Why count on him bluffing or improving? If he has any reasonable hand he would pay something on the turn and he may still bluff regardless.
 
EvertonGirl

EvertonGirl

Professional Fish
Loyaler
Joined
Feb 22, 2013
Total posts
8,421
Awards
3
GB
Chips
99
thanks. actually it was lucky for me that quads got there. he had a boat on the turn. if the board hadn't double paired on river I would have led out and he would have raised and I would have called basically any amount. it was a terrible river card for him and a lucky one for me!

Oh yea, I forgot about the 66 on the flop. Facepalm :D
 
liuouhgkres

liuouhgkres

Visionary
Bronze Level
Joined
Dec 21, 2016
Total posts
920
Awards
2
KH
Chips
33
Preflop raise is absolutely standard.
Flop C-bet is obviously good, check on the turn is the best decision in my book. Villain has a lot of 8x and gutshot hands, and if you continue they will just fold. Also if you check, you give him chance to bluff on the turn or river. On the river it is easy check and snap call. Well played on all streets.
 
Full Flush Poker
Top