$400 NLHE MTT Deep Stacked: I Hate My Line, But...

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ssbn743

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We're in a $400 MTT during the Colorado Poker Classic at my local casino, starting stacks were $30K with 30 minute levels.

We're in Level 12 ($300/$1K/$2K)
I was in seat 3 and the BB with $120K
The villain is in seat 5 and is a NIT woman with $40K

UTG folded
The NIT woman opened to $6K and the action folded to me in the BB.

She hadn't played a hand in a hour, that said, I felt like she was getting antsy, and she confirmed that by leaning way out over the table, turned her shoulders perpendicular with the table, and starred right at me. That said, she was definitely a more novice player, hence the 3x open sizing with <20BB's, so, I didn't really know what to think of her actions.

I looked at my cards and found :qc4: :qs4:

Obviously I thought of 3-betting, something was off about her, but I felt like even still, she had a very solid range. I didn't think raising would accomplish much, as she would either jam or fold - so I decided to flat call and re-evaluate the flop.

Pot: $16.5K
Flop::8c4: :7s4: :6c4:

I decided to check and she moved all-in.

Obviously her line doesn't make much sense, although that is a pretty coordinated board so the 12 combos of AA and KK show lots of merit; especially to the novice mindset. Anyway, I made the crying call and she rolled :ad4: :jd4: and bricked turn and river.

So that said, I really don't like my line and would like to discuss it. I kind of felt like a fish out of water and didn't really know how to deal with this nitty/novice woman - any thoughts?
 
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bumerangue

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IMO, you should always 3bet/call here, you got the top top of your range, too bad if she had AA or KK, against AK you are still have the best hand and going allin preflop you are ahead against most of her range. What if the board turns a King, what do you do? The 3bet also makes your BB 3bet percieved range stronger when there is a showdown
 
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ssbn743

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Yeah, you know in this case, I think I actually made more money, my bad line actually stacked her - but I got lucky that she was antsy and at the extreme bottom of her range IMO.

I just never knew where I was at and I actually called expecting her to roll 1 of 12 combos that crush me.

All that said, I just didn't know how to deal with a NIT early position 3x open. I guess this is much lower variance, if an Ace or King hits the flop, I just check/fold. If I can throw AJ in her range, my low variance line plays very well against 40 combo's of Ax (AK, AQ, AJ), leaving only 12 real combo's that beat me. Additionally, if she has 1010 or JJ she likely does the same thing - so, from a math perceptive, it seems OK to take the line I did - but it didn't feel very good and may be kind of nitty myself.
 
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trent32la

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Please read #5 in the OP of this thread: https://www.cardschat.com/forum/tou...ent-hand-analysis-read-before-posting-174517/


5. Do NOT indicate what the outcome of the hand is, especially in the opening post. This is a truly irrelevant piece of information, since it's an unknown variable when you acted throughout the hand. It also biases the analysis - if I know that you got sucked out on the river, I may not think clearly about what your action should have been on the flop.

It seems to be a common trend among threads in this forum and does nothing but weaken the discussions.

Shove pre because a NIT old woman has close to zero r/f range here, snap call flop as played.
 
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MrGreen13

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I prefer the 3bet preflop, because we take the initiative of the hand and even when the flop shows an A o a K we can represent this and take the pot betting with more credibility

Regards!
 
frnandoh

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Flat call with QQ, you wanted her all in, dont ya?
 
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JPainTrainSicko

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Flatting is a fine play, when an Ace or King fall on the flop you will have easy decision. Flatting does disguise your hand and opens up more action post flop from weaker hands when you will have more information. Considering yourself better than the villian makes this an even better play IMO.

Raising is not out of the question either tho. Like others have said, the player described will likely not have much of a 3x raise fold range just from a default analysis without specific dynamic and villain tendency info. As implied in the argument for calling, it will increase variance but that may also be a good thing in the instances where the player will get weaker hands in preflop but wouldn't after the board comes out.
 
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AKbadboyAK

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As much as she is a rock I would take to the pre flop this hand would make the 3-bet pre flop to embrace her in the all in preflop being that she has only 20 bbs would be more advantage she pushes all in with AA, KK pre Flop this 3x pre flop raise did not make much sense if she had AA, KK
 
GiGiCat

GiGiCat

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played well IMO

A nit is only going to play strong hands. 55+, A10s+, A10o+, Her raise and body language confirmed she had a hand and was willing to play it with all her chips.

Highly coordinated board that missed most of her hand range.

With that said, I'd only raise in this situation with AA or KK, although QQ is a strong and viable hand in most all cases, I still tend to put these as tweeners, or between strong and medium strength hands. Meaning if I have QQ and I'm first into pot I'll raise, if I get 3bet I'll call, If the 3-better gets 4-bet I'll generally fold QQ.

If I'm on the button and there is a standard raise before me, then a 3-bet, I'll call with Queens, if 4-bet before it gets to me I'll call. If I call the 3-bet/4-bet and then the original raiser 4-bets/5-bets then I'll fold.

Regards,
GiGiCat:)
 
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ssbn743

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A nit is only going to play strong hands. 55+, A10s+, A10o+, Her raise and body language confirmed she had a hand and was willing to play it with all her chips.

Highly coordinated board that missed most of her hand range.

With that said, I'd only raise in this situation with AA or KK, although QQ is a strong and viable hand in most all cases, I still tend to put these as tweeners, or between strong and medium strength hands. Meaning if I have QQ and I'm first into pot I'll raise, if I get 3bet I'll call, If the 3-better gets 4-bet I'll generally fold QQ.

If I'm on the button and there is a standard raise before me, then a 3-bet, I'll call with Queens, if 4-bet before it gets to me I'll call. If I call the 3-bet/4-bet and then the original raiser 4-bets/5-bets then I'll fold.

Regards,
GiGiCat:)


I'm not sure we can use the term "NIT" if we're saying her range is 55/A10o+. Plus, typically, actions like fig-ityness (if that's a word) and major movements (e. g. turning her shoulders square) almost always indicate weakness; even if that weakness is as high as AQ or JJ, it's all about what she perceives as weak.

Truly nitty players won't play an A10o from EP, so even their shouldered squared range is very strong. So anyway, that was my thinking at the time - why raise if I'm just going to get snapped off?

Now, in this case, things probably worked out for the better, as a 3-bet almost certainly would have scared her off. That said, would I carry the same tune if an Ace hit the turn? Or the flop? I'd like to think so, but have my doubts.

In the time since this hand unfolded, I've just come to opinion that really either way is fine, 3bet or flat. No matter what, we're going to play for her stack there, so it just comes down to theory of Poker stuff - flatting just lets her put it in for us - still, it felt really, really weird and I just wanted to discuss it.
 
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