$4.40 NLHE MTT: check raise?call?

B

brebs9

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No Limit Hold'em Tournament T15/T30
Buy-in: $4.00+$0.40 USD Hold'em No Limit
pokerstars
8 players
Formatted by pokercopilot.com: Poker HUD for Mac and Windows

Stacks:
UTG - UTG (T2,902)
UTG+1 - Hero (T2,992)
MP - MP (T2,782)
MP2 - MP2 (T2,061)
CO - CO (T2,887)
BTN - BTN (T4,079)
SB - SB (T3,313)
BB - BB (T2,992)

Preflop: (T77, 8 players) Hero is UTG+1 with 4h Ah
1 fold, Hero raises to T78, MP calls T78, 1 fold, CO raises to T256, 3 folds, Hero calls T178, MP calls T178

Flop: 4c 6h 3h (T845, 3 players - CO: T2,627, Hero: T2,732, MP: T2,522)
Hero checks, MP checks, CO bets T456, hero?

i like a check here but is there merrit to waiting to the turn?
villian is a tight agro player with a 15%3bet..
 
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Edvin55555

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I would push in this situation. Maybe he is protecting JJ, QQ, KK. So you might have a fold equity or good pot odds for a push.
 
nucl

nucl

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Best play here imo is check shove over the villain cbet.
But sometimes donking this kind a flop is not bad either because a lot of the time you will see a check back from villain for missing the flop.So even he called your shove you have a great equity against all the over pairs.So I believe is a profitable shove.
 
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uavissar

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Why call a squeeze with Ah4h?

Now shove.
 
liuouhgkres

liuouhgkres

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preflop fold.
on the flop you should call, you lose to value bets, you beat bluffs, and I don't think you can make him fold better hands. You have value hand, no need to overplay it, now if you didn't have pair, then check-raise would be better.
 
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AlexTheOwl

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Why are we raising A4 in early position early in the tournament?

At this stage of the tournament you can use the same kind of starting hand advice that would apply to full ring cash games, such as this:

https://www.cardschat.com/poker-starting-hands.php

Fold to the pre-flop raise.

As played, you have a strong draw and a weak middle pair on the flop.
CO and MP have a lot of Ax hands in their range that missed.

Shoving is reasonable, but I'd call. I'd probably shove in a cash game.
If you shove, you will either win a medium pot immediately or be behind in a large pot. CO and MP both have a lot of overpairs that will call a shove, especially at this buy-in, where players don't fold as much as they should.
Calling gives you a chance of winning a big pot without putting your tournament life at risk.
 
Jacki Burkhart

Jacki Burkhart

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its ok to raise suited wheel aces in EP when deep stacked provided you have good post flop skills to be able to nagivate well OOP. you may or may not be there, but I am raising this hand pre pretty much always until I dip below about 40bb. (unless my table is tough....but that's rarely the case in the games I play).

once raised more than 3x I think I favor a fold here. It's close though. If you can count on MP always calling (not folding or 4b) then you've got the direct odds + implied odds to call here. You're just gonna have to understand to give up on a ton of flops. Axx flops are give ups mostly.

THIS FLOP though is gold. this is why we play these kind of speculative hands deep stacked.

I'm inclined to play my big combo draws very fast, esp multiway. You lose a lot of your value when you miss on the turn.

I think there are 2 lines that make a lot of sense. either check raise jamming now, or check raising smaller to like 2.5x his bet (1,100) then jamming all turns (regardless of turn card). this would leave you about a half pot turn jam.

calling is too weak with a hand this strong. This is a hand to go to war with on this flop but you still want some fold equity.

The upside of just jamming is you maximize your fold equity. the downside is you narrow his calling range to really strong hands so that when you're called youre not in very great shape (vs his total range). Since he 3b pre he is less likely to have sets and straights on this board though...so that's a minor consideration.

The upside of raising small is that you get more action from weaker hands, and because his overall range is weaker, you'll get more folds on the turn while still building a bigger pot for you to win.

I'd lean towards jamming because winning a big pot with bottom pair is never a bad outcome and he's much more likely to have hands like JJ+ that we are doing well against instead of hands like 33 or 57 which are crushing us. You'll probably get a crying call from like KhKx but KxKx is in a tough spot for sure...you're actually the favorite to win vs KxKx (you have 52.5% equity) and you're 50/50 vs KhKx.
 
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AlexTheOwl

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I'd lean towards jamming because winning a big pot with bottom pair is never a bad outcome and he's much more likely to have hands like JJ+ that we are doing well against instead of hands like 33 or 57 which are crushing us. You'll probably get a crying call from like KhKx but KxKx is in a tough spot for sure...you're actually the favorite to win vs KxKx (you have 52.5% equity) and you're 50/50 vs KhKx.

I was lazy, and underestimated the gutshot and overcard equity here. Agree with raising on the flop now.
 
liuouhgkres

liuouhgkres

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@missjacki,
you don't make villain fold anything better than our hand. Villain has queens and better pairs, and he never folds them to our raise, because we don't have sets and straights in our range. So you shoving just to flip. Also, we don't need to protect our hand against overcards. Villain has AK, AQ and we block A, so he just has three outs. Calling is much better, because when we don't hit our flush (or better) we lose small pot, but when we hit we can stack villain.
 
froggeedogs

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never folding in this position. I think I would shove hard, your outs are many and you already have a pair. just calling keeps him in power.
 
Jacki Burkhart

Jacki Burkhart

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@missjacki,
you don't make villain fold anything better than our hand. Villain has queens and better pairs, and he never folds them to our raise, because we don't have sets and straights in our range. So you shoving just to flip. Also, we don't need to protect our hand against overcards. Villain has AK, AQ and we block A, so he just has three outs. Calling is much better, because when we don't hit our flush (or better) we lose small pot, but when we hit we can stack villain.

We’re not necessarily trying to fold out better hands when we have a hand this strong. We’re trying to play our hand in a way that is profitable for our entire range. And you’re wrong we DO have sets and straights in our range. If we don’t then we’re playing our sets and straights wrong too. If you’re playing your big combo draws as passively as you describe you’re missing a ton of value and greatly reducing the value of playing speculative hands.

First of all...what’s wrong with playing to flip if we’re the aggressor and we have fold equity on our side and putting our opponent to the test? Flipping is part of tourney poker
That you just need to be ok with, or you shouldn’t play tourneys.

Second if we’re lucky enough to hit our flush it will be obvious and not easy to get paid. We allow a hand like KK to play perfect and profitably against us and we’re not being a tough dangerous opponent at all. If we hit our A we get no more action from JJ-QQ but might get 1 street from Ak or AQ. The only card we can hit where we’re likely to win a big pot against JJ-KK is a 4.

Third we’re balancing/protecting our range against when we DO flop a set or a straight or 2 pair. We’re playing in a way that if you have KK good luck making the right decision here cuz I’ve either got you crushed or you’re flipping at best. That’s an awful spot to be in with KK and a great spot to be in with our range.

This is how big stacks are made and tournaments are won. I’m not interested in hanging on and playing it safe. I’m interested in being aggressive and building a huge stack.
 
liuouhgkres

liuouhgkres

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@missjacki,
flop is 643, what straights we have here? 52? 75? And we also shouldn't open 33, 44 from UTG, maybe we can open 66, so that is the ONLY set we can have.
I agree we should play combo draws agressively, because when we play agressively we can make better hands fold. But here we have value hand and even though we have good chances against any holding, we never can make them fold anything better than our hand. You are completely off with KK. If you shove here it is insta-call with KK and he is almost never behind, only when you have 66.
Your protecting part is irrelevant too, because we don't have straights, two pairs and sets other than 66.
 
Jacki Burkhart

Jacki Burkhart

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@missjacki,
flop is 643, what straights we have here? 52? 75? And we also shouldn't open 33, 44 from UTG, maybe we can open 66, so that is the ONLY set we can have.
I agree we should play combo draws agressively, because when we play agressively we can make better hands fold. But here we have value hand and even though we have good chances against any holding, we never can make them fold anything better than our hand. You are completely off with KK. If you shove here it is insta-call with KK and he is almost never behind, only when you have 66.
Your protecting part is irrelevant too, because we don't have straights, two pairs and sets other than 66.

Ok well we’re 100bb deep. So I do open all pocket pairs. But yeah I probably don’t have any straights.

Even so it’s not hard to find enough strong value combos to balance our semi bluff range.

3 combos of each set = 9 combos of sets

Big combo draws = Ah4h Ah5h AhTh AhJh AhQh AhKh = 6 combos.

That’s 9:6 value:semi bluff. Given that our range has greater than 50% equity when called we’re actually value heavy.

Even if you only have sets of 6s your value:bluff ratio is 3:6 which given the strength of our total range is still probably fine.

In short: Don’t be a nit
 

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liuouhgkres

liuouhgkres

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@missjacki
you open all pocket pairs and defend all of them against 3-bet? 22-55 are sure fold against 3-bet, even folding 66-77 is not a mistake. We shouldn't have straights and sets here.
The main point here, shoving with 52% equity against calling range is not smart decision. I understand that sometimes you can not avoid all ins, but this not the case at all. We have value hand and we beat a lot of his bluffs and stand good against his value bets, but not enough to raise. In fact at this flop we shouldn't have raising range at all. It doesn't make you nit because it is a sound poker.
 
Jacki Burkhart

Jacki Burkhart

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Yeah I’ll set mine for 8bb vs a well defined range in a multi way pot. If you’re not gonna keep 22-55 in your preflop peel range then what ARE you keeping? Just medium hands? No speculative hands? No monsters obviously.

But if you don’t wanna play this hand fast That’s fine. Just flat with your big combo draws. Miss sometimes and lose a small pot. Hit sometimes and don’t get paid. Have fun slowly building a stack or slowly bleeding chips by playing draws passively but just remember you’re gonna have to flip eventually; it’s a tournament.

For me; I’ll be either out or sitting on a big stack After this hand and nobody wants to be at my table once I’ve got a big stack. I’m not afraid to bust because my chances of winning the whole tourney skyrocket when I build a huge stack early.
 
thylmanoid

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I'd recommend that you don't play hand like A4o in EP if you don't know what to do post-flop. You also need to have a plan, if I open-raise A4 UTG and I get 3Betted, "What am I going to do?" Fold is the answer usually.
 
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dpucciarelli

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I think it is an easy shove in that situation. What was the outcome?
 
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