€330 NLHE MTT Turbo: QQ vs. donking fish on scary board

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uavissar

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Live tourney.
300/800/1600

Folds to hero in MP with QcQh
I bet 3800. Was short and shoved a lot until I just (4 hands earlier) more then doubled to 48000.

Folds to SB.
Fish. Limps a lot. Folded to raises after. His only bet pre was KK.
Has 28000. He calls.

BB just joined the table. Covers me.
BB calls.

Flop 7d8h10c
SB donks 4k.
BB folds.
I call.

Turn is 10d.
SB checks after giving a crooked smile and grunting.
I think a bit and check as well. I beat a 9. Thats it. I font think its worth betting there.

River is 6s
SB quickly bets 7000.

Hero?
 
dobatibata

dobatibata

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You should maybe at begin, if bb was 1600, you could bet 4800 (or 6400) and to be sure that he doesn't have middle pair or less, and some bad cards. with 3800 he could easly call with anything. If you ask me, i suppose he was AK, AQ, just grabbing chance to raise nice on scarry board. You maybe made mistake, not raiseing on flop to check the situation. This is regular fold for your play. but on my feelings i would call that and see this AK 80%.. if your just preflop raise was higher.
 
liuouhgkres

liuouhgkres

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Preflop raise standard.
On the flop call is the best option, you will raise with sets and straights, no need to raise with just pair.
Turn is a bit interesting, because he should continue to barrel with Tx hand, so when he checks his range mainly consists of draws, and you want to make him pay for it. But if you bet with overpairs, you will need to go smaller size, like 60%-70% of the pot, and with Tx you should go bigger, 1-1.2 pot size. I think you could bet on the turn, but check-back is not awful decision neither.
As played, on the river I would just fold, because you don't beat any value bet. And you have some better bluff-catchers like JJ when you block JT and J9 hands.
 
Queen of hearts

Queen of hearts

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I admit that the villain is bluffing, but I see no reason to check it. There are so many cards that he could play. Including - pocket pairs to 66 or even 77-88. A pair of sixes looks good on his game - he had a straight draw, which however closed in a full house.
 
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uavissar

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You should maybe at begin, if bb was 1600, you could bet 4800 (or 6400) and to be sure that he doesn't have middle pair or less, and some bad cards. with 3800 he could easly call with anything. If you ask me, i suppose he was AK, AQ, just grabbing chance to raise nice on scarry board. You maybe made mistake, not raiseing on flop to check the situation. This is regular fold for your play. but on my feelings i would call that and see this AK 80%.. if your just preflop raise was higher.

3x or 4x? how does that get value?
AK would re raise pre I think.
 
dobatibata

dobatibata

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3x or 4x? how does that get value?
AK would re raise pre I think.

I generaly dont prefer to play QQ.. so better to get blinds for sure if they don't follow 3x or 4x.. then gamble after what he could have
 
gogadgetdx

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Tricky, but fold

I don't think you had the best hand. In fact, I think you were dominated from the get-go.

He played his almost identically to how you played yours, except he moved when you didn't; I think he had AA or KK.
 
Jacki Burkhart

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pre: fine
flop: fine
turn: I think bet or check is fine. based on the read you described and the flop donk I tend to think he's on the draw so I'll bet something like 40% pot and fold to a raise. (I tend to fiind that TP would check call flop and very strong hands and draws would donk....that might not be true but those are my assumptions about donks).

river: gross. as played you've underrepped your hand and it's a 1/3 pot bet so pot has 26,400 and it costs you 7,000 to call. you're getting 3.77:1 so you only need 21% equity to call. It's enticing; but You beat ZERO value so it's just a question of whether he is bluffing 21% of the time or not. I'm thinking he's not especially because of sizing. He probably isn't bluffing 21% of the time to begin with, but if he were those bets would be bigger. A lot bigger.

sigh fold. can't win them all. I just had to fold AA a few minutes ago on similar runout with 4 card straight to a small river bet. it sucked but hes just never bluffing there. maybe not never...but not 21%.
 
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uavissar

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pre: fine
flop: fine
turn: I think bet or check is fine. based on the read you described and the flop donk I tend to think he's on the draw so I'll bet something like 40% pot and fold to a raise. (I tend to fiind that TP would check call flop and very strong hands and draws would donk....that might not be true but those are my assumptions about donks).

river: gross. as played you've underrepped your hand and it's a 1/3 pot bet so pot has 26,400 and it costs you 7,000 to call. you're getting 3.77:1 so you only need 21% equity to call. It's enticing; but You beat ZERO value so it's just a question of whether he is bluffing 21% of the time or not. I'm thinking he's not especially because of sizing. He probably isn't bluffing 21% of the time to begin with, but if he were those bets would be bigger. A lot bigger.

sigh fold. can't win them all. I just had to fold AA a few minutes ago on similar runout with 4 card straight to a small river bet. it sucked but hes just never bluffing there. maybe not never...but not 21%.

Not many fish donk and then bluff. As you said- never bluffing there.

Indeed I folded.
 
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Edvin55555

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Board is very good for his wide range. Fold looks like optimal move.
 
bmw13

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i think 33% you made the right move...33% he needs to bluff with a hand using that board and the 33% he has something and he just overvalued his hand. after thsoe stastistics you see what tipe of plauyer he his and you make the call... don t forget if he had AA or KK ...if you push there with all in you could fold AA or KK. you turn in a lossing a hand in a winning a hand ... it dosent matter what you hold it matters what you make the enemy believe.
The problem was that you looked at your hand as a weak hand ...
 
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I raise that donk bet on the flop.

It usually means he has something, but doesn't have a hand as good as a set or better, and he'd be happy to end the hand here without seeing a turn or river that might bring an overcard. Or, in his mind, maybe a later street would give you a straight, though a thinking player would not put many hands containing a nine in your range.

He's practically announcing that he has a ten, or a nine, but not a made straight.

I bet for value, because the opponent is a fish who might find it difficult to lay down top pair decent kicker or a draw.
And for protection, because so many potential turn cards - A,K,J,T,6 - are bad news for us.

As played, bet the turn. I don't think he's hollywooding and slow-playing, it's not typical for a limp-and-fold fish. I think the ten is a bad card for him.

Fold river.
 
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The problem I think you ran into was trapping.

It feels like you set a trap, and waited to long to spring it.

Given the flop, That was you're opportunity to push. Post flop you have to fold.

The problem with underrepping a hand is that an under repped hand cant bluff easily.
 
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uavissar

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The problem I think you ran into was trapping.

It feels like you set a trap, and waited to long to spring it.

Given the flop, That was you're opportunity to push. Post flop you have to fold.

The problem with underrepping a hand is that an under repped hand cant bluff easily.

Post flop you mean on the turn or river?
 
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SB donk bet the flop- you think I should reraise him?
his bet is between half and 1/3 pot. Granted it is live so maybe pot odds are harder to figure, its clear his bet is basically what you opened with.

At this point, only some hands with 9s improve against you. AK AQ look shot, KK+ would have probably reraised pre.

So i think this is another good shove on the flop. The turn and the river are action killers, so as played, I'd probably fold the river, with much anger.
 
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uavissar

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his bet is between half and 1/3 pot. Granted it is live so maybe pot odds are harder to figure, its clear his bet is basically what you opened with.

At this point, only some hands with 9s improve against you. AK AQ look shot, KK+ would have probably reraised pre.

So i think this is another good shove on the flop. The turn and the river are action killers, so as played, I'd probably fold the river, with much anger.

Why shove?
Shouldn't I let him chase and on a blank turn (more often then not) bet (if he checks) or reraise him?
I don't see much value in shoving as I'll be called only by stronger hands.
 
Jacki Burkhart

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Why shove?
Shouldn't I let him chase and on a blank turn (more often then not) bet (if he checks) or reraise him?
I don't see much value in shoving as I'll be called only by stronger hands.

Agree. The only hand you’re beating that might call is T9. Everything else crushes you when you jam and they call and you lose value against all the hands you’re beating when they fold (except maybe T9)
 
Ryan Laplante

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Pre is good.

Flop: Can pretty comfortably raise here, but dont hate the call.

Turn: Id bet/fold here. We have the best hand very often and can get called be many worse hands, would go small and fold to raise.

River: Easy fold.
 
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