$3 NLHE STT: Am I ever good on this river

Winning Poker Network Game #664840483: No Limit Holdem (15/30) [2016/06/21 13:06:31 UTC]
Table: $3 Regular 9-Max, Table 1
Tournament: 5371343
Seats: 9
Seat 1: Navi_P0k3r (1,440)
Seat 2: K1ng0fSpades (1,499)
Seat 3: 6aklajan (1,325)
Seat 4: JOHN BROWN (1,406)
Seat 5: VietMarine (2,835)
Seat 7: Shakenpop (1,380)
Seat 8: DoDrugs (2,245)
Seat 9: Hero (1,370)
Button is seat 3
JOHN BROWN: posts small blind 15
VietMarine: posts big blind 30
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Hero: dealt [Jh Qh]
Shakenpop: calls 30
DoDrugs: folds
Hero: calls 30
Navi_P0k3r: folds
K1ng0fSpades: folds
6aklajan: folds
JOHN BROWN: calls 15
VietMarine: checks
*** FLOP *** [8d Th 9c]
JOHN BROWN: checks
VietMarine: bets 90
Shakenpop: folds
Hero: calls 90
JOHN BROWN: folds
*** TURN *** [8d Th 9c] [7h]
VietMarine: bets 90
Hero: calls 90
*** RIVER *** [8d Th 9c] [7h] [Td]
VietMarine: checks
Hero: bets 240
VietMarine: raises all-in 2,625
(Hero)??

raise flop
raise turn
snap call river

$3 NLHE STT: Am I ever good on this river

Don't u want to keep bluffs In his range why raise

jgreenman18 said:

Don't u want to keep bluffs In his range why raise

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For value. People aren't bluffing as often as you think they are. And he is calling a raise or reraising more often than he is bluffing. If you can, get it all in on the flop with this hand.

I put villain on AT or similar top set good kicker. Youre good like 90% of the time here

the board is draw heavy, chances are he has something that he's willing to call with. If the board is K22 then yes, bluff catching has way more merit.

also, another thing, there are plenty of turn cards which kill action if he has some kind of two pair/top pair card, any 6 7 J Q K or Ace will kill action from top pair type hands which we get most value from.

Lastly, because we want value, calling his bet on the turn is just a waste and it makes it very hard for us to get value on rivers and get our stack in with the nutted hand. Also this is a low level SNG, players tend to play linear ranges and call with too many hands which they should fold, so raising in general for value is an awesome idea.

so to sum it all up, the wetter the board the more action you can give, the dryer the board the less action you can give, as they are way less likely to have hit something, so bluff catching is way more appealing.

side note- i don't think calling the flop is that bad, it's totally fine, my main gripe is with the turn call..

I think you should bet the flop and I certainly think you should be the turn. I really don't think you should bet the river. Once board gets scary and you have position why not just show down? You haven't defined the hand at all you have no idea where you're at.

No I don't think you're always good here. I'd need to know what kind of range villain raises pre flop with, because it could take pocket pairs and AT in or out of his range. He could have some hands you beat, AT, AJ, KJ, T9, TJ, JJ, 66, 56 but also a whole lot you don't, TT, 99, 88, 77, T7, 97, 87. Is he really going to reraise you all-in with hands that have lots of showdown value? AT and all straight are probably just calling on a paired board. So now it's air or nothing. What air hands did he bet the whole way and then decide to check raise bluff all in with? Not big AK/AQ because they raise pre flop. 23? You really believe that?

I guess the only reason to call is what WiZZiM points out is people are more likely in this type of tournament to think KJ is good and check raise ai.

Bet a lot more on the turn.

call is ok @flop but it deserve more.
so i would re-raise to 240.
call with pot at turn.
quick call on river.

Can someone explain the merit though of raising on the flop against one opponent with the nuts I struggle to see how I lose value in this hand by doing that. Can someone explain to me this rationale of thinking and I agree now I should've raised on the turn but say my opponent is a frequent bluffer and will Fire two barrels do I still raise?

jgreenman18 said:

Can someone explain the merit though of raising on the flop against one opponent with the nuts I struggle to see how I lose value in this hand by doing that. Can someone explain to me this rationale of thinking and I agree now I should've raised on the turn but say my opponent is a frequent bluffer and will Fire two barrels do I still raise?

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If he's a bluffer no, don't raise, but once he bets small on the turn you pretty much have to raise, if he has a draw he will call most raises, so you will lose value by not raising turn.

The flop call is fine as mentioned above, especially so if he's a bluffer as you want to keep his whole range in there.

River is a pretty easy bet/call although you will be beat here a small amount, people will do spazzy things and also raise with Kx here a decent amount.

why on preflop limp? (((

fortopyan said:

why on preflop limp? (((

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I'm wondering the same thing. To me, you really have two options pre-flop (raise or fold). However, I have a feeling that it wouldn't have mattered anyway because if the villain had a hand like pocket 7's or 8's, which is about what I'm putting them on, they are calling a pre-flop raise anyway, and you would still be dead on the turn anyway. The only difference is, you would have lost more. If you look at the play in a vacuum, when the board pairs, and they check-shove, you have to narrow their range to either a set, or a bluff. I feel strongly that this player is almost never bluffing in this spot and are playing their hand face-up. I'm easily making this fold here.

That's what I find with a lot of players, they're happy to limp and set traps, in the "hopes" of winning more chips later. Instead, they should balance their range and try and secure more chips sooner, then winning the rest of them later. As a result, the hero will lose the minimum (or less than they would have otherwise).

Somehow though, I think more many players like that, thoughts of "range balancing" don't really enter into their thought process anyway, so they obviously are Level 1 players.

If you feel like you have an edge, and based on how villain played this hand, I'd fold this hand fairly easily and wait for better spots. Based on how they played this hand, I think you can safely come to the conclusion that they are a "fun player".

What did you end up doing here?

Limping in after a person has already limped is perfectly acceptable. You can raise also, but a hand like QJs has potential to hit monster hands, so limping and creating more of a multiway situation is pretty much the ideal move here for this hand type. Of course raising is also fine, which one is better depends on reads and how the general population plays.

In regards to range balancing, that is just a load of drivel. we do not need to balance our ranges here especially so if they are level 1 thinkers...

WiZZiM said:

Limping in after a person has already limped is perfectly acceptable. You can raise also, but a hand like QJs has potential to hit monster hands, so limping and creating more of a multiway situation is pretty much the ideal move here for this hand type. Of course raising is also fine, which one is better depends on reads and how the general population plays.

In regards to range balancing, that is just a load of drivel. we do not need to balance our ranges here especially so if they are level 1 thinkers...

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great point. i think stack preservation also comes into account here. if you miss the flop you can get off the hand easier with minimal loss.