$3.30 NLHE MTT Deep Stacked: Is this a standard call or is there merit to a fold?

Socialpro29

Socialpro29

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Villian Stats (VPIP/PFR/AF): 13/8/9

Winning Poker Network (Yatahay) - 250/500 NL - Holdem - 8 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (BB): 40.39 BB
UTG: 24.54 BB (VPIP: 16.67, PFR: 20.00, 3Bet Preflop: -, hands: 6)
UTG+1: 34.12 BB (VPIP: 14.06, PFR: 8.59, 3Bet Preflop: 1.85, Hands: 129)
MP: 30.88 BB (VPIP: 24.32, PFR: 17.81, 3Bet Preflop: 8.70, Hands: 74)
MP+1: 44.07 BB (VPIP: 12.50, PFR: 8.33, 3Bet Preflop: 12.50, Hands: 25)
CO: 15.01 BB (VPIP: 29.17, PFR: 26.09, 3Bet Preflop: 42.86, Hands: 26)
BTN: 49.88 BB (VPIP: 26.06, PFR: 11.97, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 144)
SB: 56.34 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: -, Hands: 4)

8 players post ante of 0.1 BB, SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 2.3 BB) Hero has 9:club: 9:spade:

fold, fold, fold, MP+1 raises to 2.16 BB, CO raises to 14.91 BB and is all-in, fold, fold, Hero raises to 40.29 BB and is all-in, MP+1 calls 38.13 BB

Flop: (96.78 BB, 3 players) 8:diamond: 6:spade: 4:spade:

Turn: (96.78 BB, 3 players) 6:club:

River: (96.78 BB, 3 players) 2:diamond:

Hero shows 9:club: 9:spade: (Two Pair, Nines and Sixes)

Main Pot [46.04 BB]: (Pre 18%, Flop 16%, Turn 5%)
Side Pot#1 [50.75 BB]: (Pre 21%, Flop 17%, Turn 5%)

MP+1 shows A:heart: A:diamond: (Two Pair, Aces and Sixes)

Main Pot [46.04 BB]: (Pre 67%, Flop 79%, Turn 95%)
Side Pot#1 [50.75 BB]: (Pre 79%, Flop 83%, Turn 95%)

CO shows J:diamond: K:diamond: (One Pair, Sixes)

Main Pot [46.04 BB]: (Pre 14%, Flop 5%, Turn 0%)

MP+1 wins 96.78 BB
 
P

peddy.jr.85

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It's ok to fold. Original raiser may have a hand he could not call 40 bigs with but when he does you're pwned. Your sandwiched between the action. Even against the shove you are only flipping. Not good to punt 40bb stacks. That's lots of waiting time.
 
Andrew Popov

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You overestimated the power of your pair of nines in multipot, preflop too ... It is quite possible to assume that someone from open-raiser has a ready pair of 99+.
44BB is too big a bet for such a hand. This would make sense if you had less than 10 BB.
 
Socialpro29

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I agree with you I didnt pay attention to the intial raisers VPIP/PFR enough and assumed his open was a steal. I figured by shoving I would get him to fold and be heads up for the 16BB stack. If you remove the intial raiser from the equation and just have the shove from short stack I believe it is a correct call but with the opener still to act with very nitty stats it should be a fold given the range of hands he is opening I was dominated or at best 54% flip with hands like AK, AQ,AJ. Lesson learned although I should of known better.
 
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marnburger

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This is kind of a tough spot, I like the shove on the basis of closing out the initial raiser, you can't call the all-in here then fold to a shove so much better to shove yourself and get the fold equity.
The stats of the initial raiser are tight and suggest his opening range is similar to his continuing range, but it's only 25 hands. If you give them a 10% range you are flipping and might get them to fold a few combos in that range but not enough to be profitable. If they are up to about a 15% range then there's enough fold equity plus hand equity when called to be profitable.
I'm assuming you haven't seen any hands from villain at showdown? This might help adjust the range due to its small sample size and give you more info on whether this was +EV. You can work on these shoves off the table and calculate what ranges and stack sizes are profitable.
99 is a strong hand so don't write this off as a bad move, I think a lot of the time against most players you get enough fold equity to make this the correct move.
Also, maybe check yourself before shoving 40BB into a bigger stack but I like the aggression.
Good luck.
 
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Dwarf

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I'm inclined to suggest that you should have called the short stack. I think mp +1 will fold a 3.4x raise 3bet shove to everything 9s will beat.

If you did call and then mp +1 shoved. Given what information you have on villain its ok to fold, because you will also see his cards. However, if both you and villain called, then the flop came as it did, I think I would be broke anyways.
 
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QA77

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I don't mind this play but I think its fine to fold this spot. You can call and fold but its a big chunk of your stack.
 
oakthyago

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the button of the range of the inicial raiser would be a KQ+ 99+ In any circumstance of his range you would be in the best scenario in a coin flip.

As the friend said up here, you overestimate the power of your pocket nines, a fold after two player with some health steak behind would be the best play. I know its hard to fold a medium pocket pair without see the flop but its something necessary like in this case.
 
froggeedogs

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with a raise and a re-raise I fold these, but I am pretty tight player.
 
SuzdalDEcor

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very crazy move xDDD Fold 99 here always. Sometimes you can call if MP is LAG
 
mcgregor_415

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I would just call there. If you get another all in after you, as expected by CO with AA, you could fold. If the initial raiser calls, you are making nice pot, that you could fight for depending on the actions by CO. I would call here, but probably would fold after
 
M

Mahsa dMo

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I think that is a bid chunk of your stack to put in the middle. I mean, you have way too many BBs to iso the CO. If MP+1 had 10 BB it was ok to make a side pot if he calls. There is a chance that the both have AQ+ so you they block each other outs and give you a better chance of winning.
 
SaintNick1968

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It's a close spot, and people need to respect that. Saying 'XDD CRAZY PUSH' just isn't helpful.

I think that it is safe to assume that the initial raiser is probably opening here as a big stack and a fairly low chance of getting shoved on with at least a 15% or so range consisting of all pairs, most suited aces, a few higher offsuit aces and then some higher broadways (a range which we do very well against).

The cutoff shove is far more interesting. He will not want to be shoving all of his pairs (the lower pairs being the hands that you really want to get it in against) which makes the situation far harder. He will want to shove a fairly tight range knowing that he doesn't have masses of fold equity and he does still have the option just to call with some of his suited broadways and things you flip against but he is a loose player. I would assume he probably shoves at the very least 8% of hands or so here, which is about 77+, ATs+, AQo+ KJs+ KQo. This is a range that you do okay but not great against, but I think with the extra money in the pot and the fact that only one more person has to act if you shove with a range that you do well against you can just about shove 99 there.

You definitely don't love this spot though and it's definitely worthy of analysis. I think 88 is a fold and TT is a call for sure, but I think 99 is just about strong enough, especially at stakes where occasionally people can turn up with utter nonsense that you didn't even think about in their range :p
 
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