$215 NLHE MTT Bounty: Calling the overbet on turn with TP???

Alucard

Alucard

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V is a pretty loose aggro player from what I've seen. Have been 3betting alot.
Can I call this?
very early in the game

partypoker - 700/0 NL (8 max) - Holdem - 8 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4: http://www.pokertracker.com

Hero (BB): 67.7 BB
UTG: 152.96 BB (VPIP: 22.22, PFR: 22.22, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, hands: 18)
UTG+1: 169.91 BB (VPIP: 17.65, PFR: 17.65, 3Bet Preflop: 12.50, Hands: 18)
MP: 120.98 BB (VPIP: 11.11, PFR: 5.56, 3Bet Preflop: 12.50, Hands: 18)
MP+1: 210.02 BB (VPIP: 38.89, PFR: 38.89, 3Bet Preflop: 66.67, Hands: 18)
CO: 74.71 BB (VPIP: 29.63, PFR: 22.22, 3Bet Preflop: 28.57, Hands: 27)
BTN: 65.99 BB (VPIP: 16.67, PFR: 11.11, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 18)
SB: 68.18 BB (VPIP: 16.67, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 6)

8 players post ante of 0 BB, SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 2.5 BB) Hero has 9c Kd
fold, fold, fold, MP+1 raises to 2.5 BB, fold, fold, fold, Hero calls 1.5 BB

Flop : (6.5 BB, 2 players) 7h 5s Kc
Hero checks, MP+1 bets 1.89 BB, Hero calls 1.89 BB

Turn : (10.27 BB, 2 players) Td
Hero checks, MP+1 bets 11.48 BB,
 
MaSSive_1

MaSSive_1

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Its close, i wud fold cuz not enough draws. Even we have 9 is bad for us. Wud continue if there is some fd.
 
J

Jamuka7657

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Stacks are pretty deep so I don't think it's worth fighting too hard over top pair with a middle kicker.
 
Gohaku94

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V is a pretty loose aggro player from what I've seen. Have been 3betting alot.
Can I call this?
very early in the game

partypoker - 700/0 NL (8 max) - Holdem - 8 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4: http://www.pokertracker.com

Hero (BB): 67.7 BB
UTG: 152.96 BB (VPIP: 22.22, PFR: 22.22, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 18)
UTG+1: 169.91 BB (VPIP: 17.65, PFR: 17.65, 3Bet Preflop: 12.50, Hands: 18)
MP: 120.98 BB (VPIP: 11.11, PFR: 5.56, 3Bet Preflop: 12.50, Hands: 18)
MP+1: 210.02 BB (VPIP: 38.89, PFR: 38.89, 3Bet Preflop: 66.67, Hands: 18)
CO: 74.71 BB (VPIP: 29.63, PFR: 22.22, 3Bet Preflop: 28.57, Hands: 27)
BTN: 65.99 BB (VPIP: 16.67, PFR: 11.11, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 18)
SB: 68.18 BB (VPIP: 16.67, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 6)

8 players post ante of 0 BB, SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 2.5 BB) Hero has 9c Kd
fold, fold, fold, MP+1 raises to 2.5 BB, fold, fold, fold, Hero calls 1.5 BB

Flop : (6.5 BB, 2 players) 7h 5s Kc
Hero checks, MP+1 bets 1.89 BB, Hero calls 1.89 BB

Turn : (10.27 BB, 2 players) Td
Hero checks, MP+1 bets 11.48 BB,

I would fold in this situation. Even a 9 is not a great card on the river and it's pretty much the best that improves your hand. You are already behind to KT-KA so i think it's better to just fold there to that overbet.
When a player is really bad i start caring way more about what I've got and probably tptk would be the least in that situation.
 
Lorpugo

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again you should fold preflop with this hand, now have to fold
 
Lorpugo

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its not so easy defend on the turn, is it
 
nucl

nucl

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I'm having a feeling that he is hunting your bounty there.
With a cb less than 30% seems that villain doesn't want a fold there from hero.
If you call the turn then expect a river overshove, because I don't see villain slowing down.
So it's better to fold on the turn and find a better spot.
 
Alucard

Alucard

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If you call the turn then expect a river overshove, because I don't see villain slowing down.
So it's better to fold on the turn and find a better spot.

This is exactly what happened which I didn't plan when calling the turn. Pretty stupid from me. I thought he would slow down on river.
Even if he was bluffing he had big fold equity.
 
nucl

nucl

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This is exactly what happened which I didn't plan when calling the turn. Pretty stupid from me. I thought he would slow down on river.
Even if he was bluffing he had big fold equity.
I'm always hearing form the pros that you should always have a plan on every decision that you make.
But sometimes we act without thinking about future decisions.
And that makes sense.
Hope we fix this mistake :)
 
Lorpugo

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okay Alucard for tournaments it make sense, but you must have edge over villian postflop to make it up for out of position play. For cash game definitely fold.. gl
 
MaSSive_1

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okay Alucard for tournaments it make sense, but you must have edge over villian postflop to make it up for out of position play. For cash game definitely fold.. gl
Yeah because cash games are without antes usually and bigger raises pf.
 
Alucard

Alucard

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okay Alucard for tournaments it make sense, but you must have edge over villian postflop to make it up for out of position play. For cash game definitely fold.. gl

yeah post flop edge should be there of course. I'm doing okay in smaller buy ins.
But this kind of bigger ones I play a bit scared money hence bad decisions.


Cash games, it's an obvious fold
 
Gabinho12345

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I think it's very close. I would much rather call with a hand like K2 than K9. With K9 you block 98 and J9. If I am folding any Kx hand on the turn it would be K9.
 
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Kashtree

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Since you chose to defend against a much larger stack, and aggressive one at that, you have to fold in this position if you're not prepared to get it all in. He's probably not going anywhere after that turn bet. You check the river he knows you are weak and will be putting you all in. Lets talk about all your options from a practical standpoint. You can call. Calling is, in my opinion, the worst decision. Its about 1/5th of your stack and you will most certainly be facing a big river bet. Even tho you are in the early stages If you fold the river you're left with 50 ish BB which will make you the short stack at the table. So calling is no good if your not ready to get it all in. You could go all in. He's been aggressive so maybe its a stone cold bluff to steal so maybe he will fold, but its not likely at this point. Then there is the fold option, your best option. The reason it is your best option is you only have 5 BB invested, there's total of 10 in the pot and he wants them. He wants them very badly too, so you should let him have them. For all the reasons that make a call a mistake, those make a fold correct. Oh, and another reason for folding, its a bounty tournament. Even if you have him beat, you're not knocking him out and he's still going to have a big stack. So his risk is minimal and yours is anything but.
 
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ZenGreen

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Quite the upgrade in bet sizing from flop to turn. His turn bet shouldnt ever be folding king here. I guess my thought here is, was the plan to flop TP and then get folded out OTT. Maybe get tricky and X/R - F (not may player though are bluffing you OTR once you X?r then OTT and they call very doubtful they come over your turn raise) though this might be spewy and be ready to fire hard OTR. I hate these situation but here is where you play poker and just bo'lieve.

EDIT - @215 buyin - this is way over my buy level so I might look very fishy here
 
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ZenGreen

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Re-reading my line, I dont see a reason to x/r the turn. As we arent trying to fold out TEN, so call turn and call reasonable river, though the bigger the bet the more likely Im calling. Also see no reason to lead river as we should either be WA/WB here.
 
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Roblandinho

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I think you should call turn and check call river if it save coming.
 
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TDTODDY

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check/call the flop, check/ raise the turn. The player will most likely check down w/ AK-AJ, raise all in with a set or better on the river. You'll be saving any odds forced calls, which at this point could be very costly.
 
A

AlexTheOwl

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I'm folding this pre-flop with these stack sizes, against a raise from MP+1 from a player who is likely to be aggressive post-flop, but whose detailed betting patterns post-flop I don't know well.

K9o has little potential to make sets, straights, flushes, or better. Calling a player who is likely to be aggressive with weak hands means I need to hope to make a hand, and then hope that the opponent's hand is weaker than mine - and my hand is not likely to be strong.


My second choice pre-flop is to 3-bet, my least preferred option is to call.


His flop bet is hard to read. At this buy-in, standard flop bet sizing is often relatively small, especially on a dry board like this one. If this is not his standard size, it could be an attempt to buy the pot cheaply - unless he is the type of aggro fish who bets big with weak hands and small with strong hands, or he thinks you are a maniac who is likely to 3-bet with any hand.


I'd 3-bet the flop. If he has nothing, he may fold. If he calls, your 3-bet may curb his aggression on later streets. If he 4-bets, you can fold before getting to the later streets where bets get bigger.


As played, if you are going to decide pre-flop to call from OOP against a player who is likely to be aggressive post-flop with weak hands, your long-term strategy CANNOT be to fold decent hands post-flop when that expected aggression occurs. His plan is to get you to fold post-flop. Long-term, you can't let his plan succeed.


In this specific hand, you can fold and make a note to yourself to not stumble into these situations in the future.


Or call, and tend to call a river bet too, especially if the river is not an Ace.


It depends on how aggro he looks to you, and how conservatively you think he believes you will play post-flop.


I'd lean toward folding. In 18 hands I don't think we know yet if he is aggressive enough to make two or three bets post-flop with a hand that can't beat top pair middle kicker.
 
rikoberto

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Tricky spot..I am not sure what i would do,i would like to have a better info how often cbets flop and turn ,even the sample of hands is small..So here are my thoughts according to his range:Flop is extra dry..He can cbets all his range and correctly you call..On this turn his overbet is a mystery..Lets see his turn value range:55,77,TT,KT-AK,KK-AA..
Semi bluff range on turn:68s,89s and QJ(i dont put now semi bluff with gutshots so i will not put J9-Q9 and AJ-AQ)..
Against this range(68s,89s,55,77,TT,KT-AK,KK-AA) on turn you have equity 31.26..
Now if we add the previous gutshots that he can barell on turn as he seems aggro your equity increases on 55%..
For sure you cant check/raise turn..u dont making him fold almost nothing of his value range and semi bluff range will call u and can abuse you by position on river(especially an aggro) as u should check/hero call or check/fold at many river cards..So really i dont have some clear answer..More possibly i would fold as its still very early in the game,note that hand and be in alert in similiar situation when this villain is at Button and we defend at BB :)
 
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