$2000 NLHE MTT: AJ Suited Debate

kanselau · Jun 27, 2019

Hey

I had a debate about Playing AJs from a early position with a friend off mine and wanted to see what your thoughts are on this .

Main event Buy in $2000 .
20 players left
In the money 20th pays $2400 and first $80000
Blinds are 10k/20k 2k ante Average stack is $400k
We have 150k and get AdJd 7 handed
We have a couple aggressive players to out direct left and the blinds are passive.

Whats our best move . Fold /Raise~Fold / Raise ~Call / Shove.

eetenor · Jun 27, 2019

One choice

kanselau said:
Hey

I had a debate about Playing AJs from a early position with a friend off mine and wanted to see what your thoughts are on this .

Main event Buy in $2000 .
20 players left
In the money 20th pays $2400 and first $80000
Blinds are 10k/20k 2k ante Average stack is $400k
We have 150k and get AdJd 7 handed
We have a couple aggressive players to out direct left and the blinds are passive.

Whats our best move . Fold /Raise~Fold / Raise ~Call / Shove.

Thanks for posting.

7.5 big blinds -Ace blocker -agg villains should expect weaker hand when we shove- blinds should fold most hands. We have 2 way redraw vs other premiums.

Shove

Hope this helps

kanselau · Jun 27, 2019

Shit Sorry I have made a mistake in the Thread .

Our Stack is 250k 15BB

kanselau · Jun 27, 2019

eetenor said:
Thanks for posting.

7.5 big blinds -Ace blocker -agg villains should expect weaker hand when we shove- blinds should fold most hands. We have 2 way redraw vs other premiums.

Shove

Hope this helps

Hey thanks for the reply
Yea 7.5 BB no brainer SHOVE .
We actually have 15BB ?

Ronaldo7 · Jun 27, 2019

With 7.5 bb fold or shove are only options, and since real money is on top i don't see other option than shove

Veritas · Jun 27, 2019

what is our Position?
it's a good Hand to shove and try to get back to an average stack. if we fold and wait for a better Hand we might just blind off and have no fold equity....
In EP I don't want to raise with such a small stack and Play AJs OOP or multiway. r/f is no Option either

finaltable1 · Jun 27, 2019

kanselau said:
Hey

I had a debate about Playing AJs from a early position with a friend off mine and wanted to see what your thoughts are on this .

Main event Buy in $2000 .
20 players left
In the money 20th pays $2400 and first $80000
Blinds are 10k/20k 2k ante Average stack is $400k
We have 150k and get AdJd 7 handed
We have a couple aggressive players to out direct left and the blinds are passive.

Whats our best move . Fold /Raise~Fold / Raise ~Call / Shove.

Dude... :captain: Who cares about 150K and 400K chips? Do we also have to know dealers name???

What important is
1) your position
2) your hand
3) your stack in BB and average stack size in BBs

How can you expect to think about the hand if you're not mentioning the position?

You see, at this point, being in the money and having several loose aggros at the table couple of things are obvious:

1) players will become more loose and more aggressive, cause they're in the money now.
2) SO they'll be leaving the tourney faster.
3) So, for You, it's a good time to play tighter game and maybe waste some time thinking on each hand while people fight at the other tables.
4) By going all-in with AJ you have 3 possible outcomes: a)collecting blinds and antes and adding like 15% to your stack. b)double up c)losing and leaving. Is AJ worth it?
5) With many L/A players left in such situation, (20p left 15bb stack)you have good chances to reach the final table bubble by simply sitting out.

Now regarding the position:

AJs is obvious fold in EP, MP and all-in in LP if there was no bets infront of us. If someone raised, and depending on info on that player you can make a decision, but in like 80-90% of cases it's a fold with 15bb stack. Yet it's all-in in all cases with stack under 10bb, or maybe under 5-7bb, depending on average stack and prise jumps.

How can AJ-Q-Ks can be considered a better hand than 88? AJ omg... It's even a PREMIUM HAND in someones opinion ROFL. AJ is a marginal-trash hand if you ask me. Jack is the best medium kicker. Suited? Don't even consider this factor for a preflop decision.

Hey my brother won 10K for the first place at PS, he falled asleep during the bubble time in $11
tourney having stack over 120BB and woke up with 2BB stack... Boom-Bah-BABAH and he's at the final table. Caboom and he wins the first place.

Personally my best result was 1st place after being down to 6BB with 170 players left, but it wasn't even a thousand dollars. I simply went all-in with any poker pair and won against A-rags again and again.

Why I'm saying this? Because by going all-in 15bb stack with AJ and aggros behind you, you can lose a opportunity to win with pocket sevens, aces and tens in the nearest future.

Veritas · Jun 27, 2019

finaltable1 said:
Dude... :captain: Who cares about 150K and 400K chips? Do we also have to know dealers name???

What important is
1) your position
2) your hand
3) your stack in BB and average stack size in BBs

How can you expect to think about the hand if you're not mentioning the position?

You see, at this point, being in the money and having several loose aggros at the table couple of things are obvious:

1) players will become more loose and more aggressive, cause they're in the money now.
2) SO they'll be leaving the tourney faster.
3) So, for You, it's a good time to play tighter game and maybe waste some time thinking on each hand while people fight at the other tables.
4) By going all-in with AJ you have 3 possible outcomes: a)collecting blinds and antes and adding like 15% to your stack. b)double up c)losing and leaving. Is AJ worth it?
5) With many L/A players left in such situation, (20p left 15bb stack)you have good chances to reach the final table bubble by simply sitting out.

Now regarding the position:

AJs is obvious fold in EP, MP and all-in in LP if there was no bets infront of us. If someone raised, and depending on info on that player you can make a decision, but in like 80-90% of cases it's a fold with 15bb stack. Yet it's all-in in all cases with stack under 10bb, or maybe under 5-7bb, depending on average stack and prise jumps.

How can AJ-Q-Ks can be considered a better hand than 88? AJ omg... It's even a PREMIUM HAND in someones opinion ROFL. AJ is a marginal-trash hand if you ask me. Jack is the best medium kicker. Suited? Don't even consider this factor for a preflop decision.

Hey my brother won 10K for the first place at PS, he falled asleep during the bubble time in $11
tourney having stack over 120BB and woke up with 2BB stack... Boom-Bah-BABAH and he's at the final table. Caboom and he wins the first place.

Personally my best result was 1st place after being down to 6BB with 170 players left, but it wasn't even a thousand dollars. I simply went all-in with any poker pair and won against A-rags again and again.

Why I'm saying this? Because by going all-in 15bb stack with AJ and aggros behind you, you can lose a opportunity to win with pocket sevens, aces and tens in the nearest future.

this has to be the biggest bullshit i have read in a while

his stack size of 150k is one of the key Facts in this Hand, also the chip avg is important. by simply dividing it by the bb, you get the stack size in bb, not that hard….
he also posted his Hand

so in a nutshell your advice is to Play tight and wait for AA/KK while the others bust and you reach the final table?

the worst advice i could imagine. if we are lucky enough to get 1x AA and 1x KK, we still have to get lucky to 1.) find someone to pay us, 2.) win vs his Hand.
it could also happen that we just collect the blinds and if we wait only for premium Hands, chances are really high thtat we blind off.
also HIS stack size is 15bb, the AVG stack size is 40bb, so People are not going to leave soon and it will take some time to reach the FT.

I don't know where you got your Information About how to Play AJs with 15bb, but Nash says REGARDLESS of the Position, AJs with 15bb is +EV when shoving.
also Jonathan Little's push/fold Chart says AJs with 15bb is a shove, REGARDLESS of the positon. Even A9s is a shove.

AJs is not better than 88, but neither is 88 way better than AJs. 88 is ~52%fav to win. so in 100 Hands you are going to lose 47 times, win 52 times and tie once.
Maybe you have no real experience with poker, but when you say you win with PP vs Ax several times, then you are just lucky. PP vs any A+Overcard is Always a coinflip giving both ~ 50% Chance to win. so if you win those 50:50 Flips 5-6 times, you are just a luckbox, not the better player.
you should really read some books/articles About odds, because you seem to be clueless.
sure he could lose to any PP in this spot, but he has really good odds to double up aswell unless they call with JJ+

he played a 2.000$ Tournament, so he sure is no Amateur. after reading your post, i guess that's the cumulative amount of buy-ins for half a year for you.
if you are ever reaching those Limits, read your post again and let me know what you think About it.

With my comment i don't want to offend you, see it as harsh criticism. one day you might be thankful for this post

eetenor · Jun 28, 2019

kanselau said:
Shit Sorry I have made a mistake in the Thread .

Our Stack is 250k 15BB

No worries.

Ok 15 BB.

Would the Aggs try to get you to fold if you min raised?

What do the 3 bet call off ranges look like for your villains?

If you min raised the passives might only reraise premium allowing you to fold?

Are we targeting a specific player on the table that will fit or fold a hand? Or over play small pairs post flop?

What have your last 5 moves looked like? LAG or TAG?

We want to try to make the move that allows our opponents to make the most mistakes. If they call too wide pre we shove. If the shove makes them play close to perfectly then the shove is wrong. If they mistake a min raise as weakness...

Survival in tournaments matters if we can trust our reads post flop even with 13bb we can make a fold.

If you are playing in multiple tournaments we do not have time for this so shove.

Hope this helps

ssbn743 · Jun 28, 2019

kanselau said:
Hey

I had a debate about Playing AJs from a early position with a friend off mine and wanted to see what your thoughts are on this .

Main event Buy in $2000 .
20 players left
In the money 20th pays $2400 and first $80000
Blinds are 10k/20k 2k ante Average stack is $400k
We have 150k and get AdJd 7 handed
We have a couple aggressive players to out direct left and the blinds are passive.

Whats our best move . Fold /Raise~Fold / Raise ~Call / Shove.

150K, clear shove
250K, I think still a shove, but could be argued to fold with the right dynamic and/or ICM implications. Doesn't sound like we have those conditions here though - I think we need to be thinking shove here unless we have a clear reason not to.

Attached is a pretty standard 15B shove range graphic:

scubed · Jul 3, 2019

kanselau said:
Hey

I had a debate about Playing AJs from a early position with a friend off mine and wanted to see what your thoughts are on this .

Main event Buy in $2000 .
20 players left
In the money 20th pays $2400 and first $80000
Blinds are 10k/20k 2k ante Average stack is $400k
We have 150k and get AdJd 7 handed
We have a couple aggressive players to out direct left and the blinds are passive.

Whats our best move . Fold /Raise~Fold / Raise ~Call / Shove.

Hero has 7.5 big blinds with 2 broadways that can make the nuts. No question, shove this

pre-flop. With 7.5 bigs Hero has no fold equity, a call with this hand is OK (and hero should be happy to get it in with a caller).

EDIT: Saw the correction for 15bbs. I still think this is a shove. Hero won't get to the real money on 15bbs with an ante.

Bozovicdj · Jul 3, 2019

ssbn743 said:
150K, clear shove
250K, I think still a shove, but could be argued to fold with the right dynamic and/or ICM implications. Doesn't sound like we have those conditions here though - I think we need to be thinking shove here unless we have a clear reason not to.

Attached is a pretty standard 15B shove range graphic:

I wouldn't follow this range that is given here strictly. Way too many things not accounted for like the types of players at the table, the general table dynamics.

As many said 7.5 bbs is a no brainer shove!

With 15bbs it's either a shove or a fold, never limp or open-raise pre.

Now, folding here is to get as far as possible ITM and wait for better holdings like pocket pairs and AK/AQ.
Flat calling and open-betting pre is bad because you are way too open to re-raises that you likely need to fold to.
Shoving would be my no.1 option, but it really depends on what you did prior to that hand, have you had any showdowns, or all-ins pre-flop recently etc, and also how wide do you think players behind you are calling..

kanselau · Jul 4, 2019

Hey Dude
You Make some very good points about not Risking your tornament life on AJ from UTG
But you contradict yourself by saying who cares about 400K average stack and say that "what is important is Your stack and average stack in BB , its the same thing" 400k = 20BB.
And in my opinion this average stack is a key point in our decision making here .

I also do not understand your logic about folding AJs for an opportunity to double up with 77 and 1010 as AJ has 50% chance of wining against a pocket pair.

Early position on a 7handed table = UTG or UTG +1 are you also folding 10 10 ?

finaltable1 said:
Dude... :captain: Who cares about 150K and 400K chips? Do we also have to know dealers name???

What important is
1) your position
2) your hand
3) your stack in BB and average stack size in BBs

How can you expect to think about the hand if you're not mentioning the position?

You see, at this point, being in the money and having several loose aggros at the table couple of things are obvious:

1) players will become more loose and more aggressive, cause they're in the money now.
2) SO they'll be leaving the tourney faster.
3) So, for You, it's a good time to play tighter game and maybe waste some time thinking on each hand while people fight at the other tables.
4) By going all-in with AJ you have 3 possible outcomes: a)collecting blinds and antes and adding like 15% to your stack. b)double up c)losing and leaving. Is AJ worth it?
5) With many L/A players left in such situation, (20p left 15bb stack)you have good chances to reach the final table bubble by simply sitting out.

Now regarding the position:

AJs is obvious fold in EP, MP and all-in in LP if there was no bets infront of us. If someone raised, and depending on info on that player you can make a decision, but in like 80-90% of cases it's a fold with 15bb stack. Yet it's all-in in all cases with stack under 10bb, or maybe under 5-7bb, depending on average stack and prise jumps.

How can AJ-Q-Ks can be considered a better hand than 88? AJ omg... It's even a PREMIUM HAND in someones opinion ROFL. AJ is a marginal-trash hand if you ask me. Jack is the best medium kicker. Suited? Don't even consider this factor for a preflop decision.

Hey my brother won 10K for the first place at PS, he falled asleep during the bubble time in $11
tourney having stack over 120BB and woke up with 2BB stack... Boom-Bah-BABAH and he's at the final table. Caboom and he wins the first place.

Personally my best result was 1st place after being down to 6BB with 170 players left, but it wasn't even a thousand dollars. I simply went all-in with any poker pair and won against A-rags again and again.

Why I'm saying this? Because by going all-in 15bb stack with AJ and aggros behind you, you can lose a opportunity to win with pocket sevens, aces and tens in the nearest future.

kanselau · Jul 4, 2019

Hey thanks for your input.

I personally agree with your opinion to shove this hand because off the massive ICM pressure we put on the other players. The obvious hands we are worried about is KK QQ we block AQ+ and JJ and 1010 is hatting life and should probably fold.
The only problem is when we do get called we are toast.
I am quite aware off the

push/fold Charts and this is a shove following the charts , the only problem is the charts are GTO and do not account for exploitative considerations , such as our opponents and the average stack.
This brings me to the point that this is not a slam dunk shove.

I have been playing poker for over 15 years now and have played many events including winning a couple off the Aussie Millions events, during this time I have learned that GTO does't apply as much in live tornaments as it does to online . I also have learned that this deep in a major event most recreational players tighten up this deep in a main event giving us more incentive to open AJ.
I have also been experimenting ( especially in shallow stack tornaments ) with playing a 10BB + with out committing all the chips and risking our tornament life. I have had a lot off success doing this.
I think that in this spot because the average stack is so shallow we should at least consider raise folding AJ to a shove against a big stack and calling off to a short stack.
And this is where exploitive play would also come in to play , for example if the maniac with the big stack jams on us Id be happily calling off but if a rock with a medium stack jams I would fold .

finaltable1 said:
Dude... :captain: Who cares about 150K and 400K chips? Do we also have to know dealers name???

What important is
1) your position
2) your hand
3) your stack in BB and average stack size in BBs

How can you expect to think about the hand if you're not mentioning the position?

You see, at this point, being in the money and having several loose aggros at the table couple of things are obvious:

1) players will become more loose and more aggressive, cause they're in the money now.
2) SO they'll be leaving the tourney faster.
3) So, for You, it's a good time to play tighter game and maybe waste some time thinking on each hand while people fight at the other tables.
4) By going all-in with AJ you have 3 possible outcomes: a)collecting blinds and antes and adding like 15% to your stack. b)double up c)losing and leaving. Is AJ worth it?
5) With many L/A players left in such situation, (20p left 15bb stack)you have good chances to reach the final table bubble by simply sitting out.

Now regarding the position:

AJs is obvious fold in EP, MP and all-in in LP if there was no bets infront of us. If someone raised, and depending on info on that player you can make a decision, but in like 80-90% of cases it's a fold with 15bb stack. Yet it's all-in in all cases with stack under 10bb, or maybe under 5-7bb, depending on average stack and prise jumps.

How can AJ-Q-Ks can be considered a better hand than 88? AJ omg... It's even a PREMIUM HAND in someones opinion ROFL. AJ is a marginal-trash hand if you ask me. Jack is the best medium kicker. Suited? Don't even consider this factor for a preflop decision.

Hey my brother won 10K for the first place at PS, he falled asleep during the bubble time in $11
tourney having stack over 120BB and woke up with 2BB stack... Boom-Bah-BABAH and he's at the final table. Caboom and he wins the first place.

Personally my best result was 1st place after being down to 6BB with 170 players left, but it wasn't even a thousand dollars. I simply went all-in with any poker pair and won against A-rags again and again.

Why I'm saying this? Because by going all-in 15bb stack with AJ and aggros behind you, you can lose a opportunity to win with pocket sevens, aces and tens in the nearest future.

Veritas said:
this has to be the biggest bullshit i have read in a while

his stack size of 150k is one of the key Facts in this Hand, also the chip avg is important. by simply dividing it by the bb, you get the stack size in bb, not that hard….
he also posted his Hand

so in a nutshell your advice is to Play tight and wait for AA/KK while the others bust and you reach the final table?
the worst advice i could imagine. if we are lucky enough to get 1x AA and 1x KK, we still have to get lucky to 1.) find someone to pay us, 2.) win vs his Hand.
it could also happen that we just collect the blinds and if we wait only for premium Hands, chances are really high thtat we blind off.
also HIS stack size is 15bb, the AVG stack size is 40bb, so People are not going to leave soon and it will take some time to reach the FT.

I don't know where you got your Information About how to Play AJs with 15bb, but Nash says REGARDLESS of the Position, AJs with 15bb is +EV when shoving.
also Jonathan Little's push/fold Chart says AJs with 15bb is a shove, REGARDLESS of the positon. Even A9s is a shove.

AJs is not better than 88, but neither is 88 way better than AJs. 88 is ~52%fav to win. so in 100 Hands you are going to lose 47 times, win 52 times and tie once.
Maybe you have no real experience with poker, but when you say you win with PP vs Ax several times, then you are just lucky. PP vs any A+Overcard is Always a coinflip giving both ~ 50% Chance to win. so if you win those 50:50 Flips 5-6 times, you are just a luckbox, not the better player.
you should really read some books/articles About odds, because you seem to be clueless.
sure he could lose to any PP in this spot, but he has really good odds to double up aswell unless they call with JJ+

he played a 2.000$ Tournament, so he sure is no Amateur. after reading your post, i guess that's the cumulative amount of buy-ins for half a year for you.
if you are ever reaching those Limits, read your post again and let me know what you think About it.

With my comment i don't want to offend you, see it as harsh criticism. one day you might be thankful for this post

kanselau · Jul 4, 2019

Hey thanks for your thoughts .
Please read post above about my thought on open raising and tell me your thoughts on this .
I have been card dead in this tornament for the last 2 hours so have been playing preety snug but I have 3 bet all in with 10 10 in the last orbit when a early position agro with a decent stack opened.
Most players on the table were scared money trying to ladder up appart from 2 aggro decent regs .

Bozovicdj said:
I wouldn't follow this range that is given here strictly. Way too many things not accounted for like the types of players at the table, the general table dynamics.

As many said 7.5 bbs is a no brainer shove!

With 15bbs it's either a shove or a fold, never limp or open-raise pre.

Now, folding here is to get as far as possible ITM and wait for better holdings like pocket pairs and AK/AQ.
Flat calling and open-betting pre is bad because you are way too open to re-raises that you likely need to fold to.
Shoving would be my no.1 option, but it really depends on what you did prior to that hand, have you had any showdowns, or all-ins pre-flop recently etc, and also how wide do you think players behind you are calling..

kanselau · Jul 4, 2019

nice feedback
cheers

eetenor said:
No worries.

Ok 15 BB.

Would the Aggs try to get you to fold if you min raised?

What do the 3 bet call off ranges look like for your villains?

If you min raised the passives might only reraise premium allowing you to fold?

Are we targeting a specific player on the table that will fit or fold a hand? Or over play small pairs post flop?

What have your last 5 moves looked like? LAG or TAG?

We want to try to make the move that allows our opponents to make the most mistakes. If they call too wide pre we shove. If the shove makes them play close to perfectly then the shove is wrong. If they mistake a min raise as weakness...

Survival in tournaments matters if we can trust our reads post flop even with 13bb we can make a fold.

If you are playing in multiple tournaments we do not have time for this so shove.

Hope this helps

kanselau · Jul 4, 2019

Table consists off myself ( considered 10% top player in the local casino)
LAG with big stack to my direct left (considered top 10%) probably would call off with 66+ A8s if we were late pos but I assume he would tighten that range since hes UTG+1
LAG in the BB with average stack . Has had some recent results and is quite loose usually but has an akward stack to call off 15BB out off 20BB Stack light IMO.
Rest off the table weak scared money wanting to ladder.

How about if we Raise call off the aggros and fold to the scared money rocks?

Bozovicdj said:
I wouldn't follow this range that is given here strictly. Way too many things not accounted for like the types of players at the table, the general table dynamics.

As many said 7.5 bbs is a no brainer shove!

With 15bbs it's either a shove or a fold, never limp or open-raise pre.

Now, folding here is to get as far as possible ITM and wait for better holdings like pocket pairs and AK/AQ.
Flat calling and open-betting pre is bad because you are way too open to re-raises that you likely need to fold to.
Shoving would be my no.1 option, but it really depends on what you did prior to that hand, have you had any showdowns, or all-ins pre-flop recently etc, and also how wide do you think players behind you are calling..

finaltable1 · Jul 4, 2019

kanselau said:
Hey Dude
You Make some very good points about not Risking your tornament life on AJ from UTG
But you contradict yourself by saying who cares about 400K average stack and say that "what is important is Your stack and average stack in BB , its the same thing" 400k = 20BB.
And in my opinion this average stack is a key point in our decision making here .

I also do not understand your logic about folding AJs for an opportunity to double up with 77 and 1010 as AJ has 50% chance of wining against a pocket pair.

Early position on a 7handed table = UTG or UTG +1 are you also folding 10 10 ?

Yes, I might fold TT in UTG, it depends on what's going on.

When we evolve from thinking that poker is a "collect combination game" we'll see a whole different picture. Too many questions with no answer actually. Basic questions:

So what's your stack size? 7.5 or 15BB?
What's your position at the table and in the tourney?

If your stack is 7.5BB and average is 20bb being in the money, then decision depends on the position at the table and position in the tourney, next prize jump and who are those to your left.

Actually I can't make good decision with such few details. If you want me to make a decision based on AJs as a key factor - then it's better to fold trash hands in early positions. But why would i limp or raise or push all-in with AJ, knowing that there are couple of aggros to my left who live to shove with much worse hands? I can sit comfortably couple more rounds with 7.5BB stack and wait for a better hand. During this time one or few of them will leave. But if the next prize jump is 9th place, then it's better to shove AJs in any position.

fundiver199 · Jul 4, 2019

If we have 250k chips with 20k blinds, then we are 12,5BB deep. I am definitly always playing AJs in this situation, so its only between making a normal open raise or open shoving. And with stacks this shallow a normal open raise will pretty much be a mini-raise or very close to it.

There are pros and cons of both. Open shoving give us the most fold equity, and picking up the blinds and antes uncontested will increase our stack a very meaningfull 20%. However we are also getting it in in bad shape those roughly 20% of the time, someone else wake up with AQ+ or JJ+, unless we occationally get AQ to fold.

Open shoving is easy and definitly profitable, but I think, most good players today would go for the mini-raise or 2,2BB or whatever. If we get 3-bet, we make a decision. There are definitly some players, where AJs would be a fold to their 3-bet and others, where it would be a call. Position of the 3-better also matter. The earlier his position, the more we need to respect his actions and lean towards a fold.

Bozovicdj · Jul 4, 2019

kanselau said:
Hey thanks for your thoughts .
Please read post above about my thought on open raising and tell me your thoughts on this .
I have been card dead in this tornament for the last 2 hours so have been playing preety snug but I have 3 bet all in with 10 10 in the last orbit when a early position agro with a decent stack opened.
Most players on the table were scared money trying to ladder up appart from 2 aggro decent regs .

First of all, love this line:

GTO does't apply as much in live tornaments as it does to online

Second, I still don't think open raising pre is good.
So you open this hand, hoping everyone folds, don't you achieve the same with shoving?
If you open and someone comes over the top and you fold, then what happens if you get ATs the very next hand? Do you bet-fold too? At the same time, if someone shoves over you, it's a far more difficult spot, and you can'r really feel comfortable making any decision...

Let's say we are in the BU position and we are holding 88. If I see a bet from UTG or whatever position, I am probably shoving it when everyone else folds to me. However, if UTG would shove, I would lean towards a fold with the same hand.

One more thing, let's say you do just bet with AJ, and a player who covers you goes all in and shows KQs, you know you are 55% favorite, are you still comfortable calling and risking busting out and not getting another payjump?

IMO, if you decide to shove, no KQs can call you, and it is far less likely some border-line hands will call you that would otherwise re-raise shove looking at your open-bet

eetenor · Jul 4, 2019

Use your reads

kanselau said:
Table consists off myself ( considered 10% top player in the local casino)
LAG with big stack to my direct left (considered top 10%) probably would call off with 66+ A8s if we were late pos but I assume he would tighten that range since hes UTG+1
LAG in the BB with average stack . Has had some recent results and is quite loose usually but has an akward stack to call off 15BB out off 20BB Stack light IMO.
Rest off the table weak scared money wanting to ladder.

How about if we Raise call off the aggros and fold to the scared money rocks?

Thanks for responding.

If we can use our reads to get the best results we should. If we just shove here the aggs probably call correctly. The passives over fold but if they have KK we find out when we see it. If I think a passive will only be shoving 99+ it is always raise fold to survive. The passives might call pre with a small pair and then fold to any paint on the flop. Or even better call with an A10 or A9 and double us on an ace flop.
I want to keep my skill in play especially when I have my villains nailed on hand reading. 10-12bb is still playable vs that table lineup.

Hope this helps.

So yes we want to induce the Aggs and protect our stack from the from the weak tight.

$2000 NLHE MTT: AJ Suited Debate

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