$2.20 NLHE MTT: Top pair questionable kicker multi way

MoeJurphy

MoeJurphy

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I find myself in this situation a lot, multi way pot top pair questionable kicker.
How would you approach this spot?

PokerStars - 100/200 Ante 30 NL - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

SB: 50.15 BB
Hero (BB): 22.15 BB
UTG: 103.67 BB
UTG+1: 86.64 BB
MP: 11.44 BB
MP+1: 37.46 BB
MP+2: 50.08 BB
CO: 8.53 BB
BTN: 25.71 BB

9 players post ante of 0.15 BB, SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 2.85 BB) Hero has K<font color='black'>♠</font> 7<font color='red'>♦</font>

fold, UTG+1 calls 1 BB, fold, fold, fold, fold, BTN calls 1 BB, SB calls 0.5 BB, Hero checks

Flop: (5.35 BB, 4 players) K<font color='black'>♣</font> 9<font color='black'>♠</font> 8<font color='red'>♦</font>
 
mbrenneman0

mbrenneman0

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assuming SB checks this flop, I like a bet here for about 1/3 pot. If SB is playing correctly, he is completing pre with any two excluding his top 20% of hands, button flats probably an even weaker range, he should be raising to isolate with just about anything playable and Im assuming UTG is weak passive, especially if youve seen him open limp more often than open raise so im not worried about his range either. we probably have anout 30 to 40% equity in a 4 way pot on this flop texture. the only thing i would worry about is a set of 9s or 7s or a turned set.

a lot if people do play weak pocket pairs very passively preflop, so a set is definitely a possibility, but being overly afraid of it is mutbs (monsters under the bed syndrome) imo

id lead flop 1/3rd pot, we probably isolate 1 or two players, then betting any turn 1/3rd pot, then check-call most rivers to any reasonable sizing. most rivers will probably go check check and showdown though. probably folding to a raise on the turn though.

things to keep in mind is we have 3 to a straight so any 6 or 10 on the turn is awesome for our equity and we also block backdoor spades so if two more spades runout we can still feel pretty safe with our hand.

of course reevaluating each street
 
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MoeJurphy

MoeJurphy

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assuming SB checks this flop, I like a bet here for about 1/3 pot. If SB is playing correctly, he is completing pre with any two excluding his top 20% of hands, button flats probably an even weaker range, he should be raising to isolate with just about anything playable and Im assuming UTG is weak passive, especially if youve seen him open limp more often than open raise so im not worried about his range either. we probably have anout 30 to 40% equity in a 4 way pot on this flop texture. the only thing i would worry about is a set of 9s or 7s or a turned set.

a lot if people do play weak pocket pairs very passively preflop, so a set is definitely a possibility, but being overly afraid of it is mutbs (monsters under the bed syndrome) imo

id lead flop 1/3rd pot, we probably isolate 1 or two players, then betting any turn 1/3rd pot, then check-call most rivers to any reasonable sizing. most rivers will probably go check check and showdown though. probably folding to a raise on the turn though.

things to keep in mind is we have 3 to a straight so any 6 or 10 on the turn is awesome for our equity and we also block backdoor spades so if two more spades runout we can still feel pretty safe with our hand.

of course reevaluating each street


This is more or less the route I would normally take, I find if you are too aggressive in this spot you will find yourself getting to show down against a bigger K a lot of the time. Atleast playing somewhat passively you can get some reads on wether you kicker is good here.
 
mbrenneman0

mbrenneman0

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the only one that i think could have the better kicker is SB because his range should be so wide here but there are also a ton of other combos in his range. he has more combos of weak kings and pocket pairs worse than top pair that call two streets than better kings. he would raise KJ+ right? at least most players would IMO. maybe UTG+1 has some Kx in his range if he plays a vp/pfr of 40/8 or wider but if thats the case, same thing, plenty of combos we're ahead of that call two streets imo
 
MoeJurphy

MoeJurphy

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the only one that i think could have the better kicker is SB because his range should be so wide here but there are also a ton of other combos in his range. he has more combos of weak kings and pocket pairs worse than top pair that call two streets than better kings. he would raise KJ+ right? at least most players would IMO. maybe UTG+1 has some Kx in his range if he plays a vp/pfr of 40/8 or wider but if thats the case, same thing, plenty of combos we're ahead of that call two streets imo

Yeah this makes a lot of sense
 
mbrenneman0

mbrenneman0

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i could see betting flop and check calling turn and river, but i think its fine to bet two streets too.

but i want to get value for my top pair and definitely dont want to give 3 people with wide ranges any free cards.
 
N

ninoverm

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You can't assume people that limp will just raise with stronger kings here. A lot of players will limp K9+, it's way too dependant on the player. Top pair bad kicker is showdown value here four ways. If you get raised, what do you do? Just pile in your 22 blind stack with top pair weak kicker with a very big chance of being behind?

Generally when I check from the big blind in a limped pot I generally treat the flop as if there was a raise pre. You don't have the lead in the hand (you made the most passive move pre) so you're not near nutted. You can probably find some leads with like 98 as that's strong enough to get it in in a four-way pot.

Donk-betting with top pair weak kicker (which this basically is) is just way too thin. If you start leading with any king you basically don't have any hands anymore to check-call with, making your check quite exploitable as well.
 
mbrenneman0

mbrenneman0

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are the types of players who open limp better kings also the types of players to bet worse kings here?

I'm not leading with any king either. I'm leading with any king thats ahead of the range of hands that villains call us with. yes some players limp K9 - KQ or even limp AA or KK, but it's more likely that even weak passive players raise those.

my checking range in multiway pots on dry flops like this is balanced with all sets, and two pairs, but with a middling hand I want to be more aggressive
 
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trent32la

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I start by checking. We're in a 4way pot and would ideally like to pot control here. Would really only be betting out 2pr+ here.
 
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