$2.2 NLHE MTT: Top pair, good kicker, shove or fold?

oriole

oriole

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Winning Poker Network (Yatahay) - 40/80 NL - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

SB: 29.44 BB (VPIP: 7.69, PFR: 7.69, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, hands: 13)
BB: 34.25 BB (VPIP: 28.21, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 39)
UTG: 22.63 BB (VPIP: 11.11, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 18)
UTG+1: 31.08 BB (VPIP: 23.08, PFR: 2.56, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 39)
MP: 33.78 BB (VPIP: 43.59, PFR: 15.38, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 39)
MP+1: 44.71 BB (VPIP: 18.42, PFR: 7.89, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 39)
MP+2: 20.63 BB (VPIP: 11.76, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 17)
Hero (CO): 18.88 BB
BTN: 59.44 BB (VPIP: 15.38, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 13)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has K T

fold, UTG+1 calls 1 BB, fold, MP+1 calls 1 BB, MP+2 calls 1 BB, Hero calls 1 BB, BTN calls 1 BB, fold, BB checks

Flop: (6.5 BB, 6 players) 8 T 7
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, MP+1 bets 3.25 BB, MP+2 calls 3.25 BB, Hero raises to 17.88 BB and is all-in, fold, fold, fold, MP+1 calls 14.63 BB, fold

Turn: (45.5 BB, 2 players) 2

River: (45.5 BB, 2 players) T

MP+1 shows T A (Three of a Kind, Tens)
(Pre 70%, Flop 87%, Turn 93%)
Hero shows K T (Three of a Kind, Tens)
(Pre 30%, Flop 13%, Turn 7%)
MP+1 wins 45.5 BB

I guess I should have folded pre flop but I couldn't resist since there were already 2 limpers.
 
Last edited:
aminv

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it is so risky to just limp in with KT. KT is also not a good hand to raise. so preflop fold is the best move. I will not limp in and make myself committed to such family pot. odds are not good for you even with top pair. lots of daws are out there. So check fold was the best move for you.
 
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PKRNRS

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The problem here is (like myself today) you didn't raise. We got all these players in the pot. With [Ks] [Ts] I have no problem with the limp if there are more than 3 players already in. With a hand like this you are going to want a lot of players in the pot. Unfortunately you're going to have to hit more than top pair. This is a hand that needs help post-flop and if it doesn't come than you need to be ready to dump it. In this hand I would have limped along as cheap as I could.
 
PHX

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Shove or fold preflop you do not have enough chips. No raise in pot so I think shoving here picks up the pot uncontested a fair bit.
Sometimes times limping behind works out you get your double against a smaller 10 like Q10 or J10 or medium pocket pair like 88 99. Sometimes you are beat and dominated from the jump like above. The majority of time though you miss the flop hard and you are forced to fold on flop which is the main reason to either shove or fold preflop.
 
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Gerb

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I feel like 18BB is enough for the limp, although with 3 limpers already there is lots of dead money in the pot so probably a shove pre is the most profitable. On the flop, I think villain bets his Q10, J10 like this as well, so I don't mind the shove. Maybe others with more insight will give you a reason why you should fold, but im probably playing it the same post flop. Hard to get away from top pair when you are short like that.
 
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Gerb

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I'll add that most players would raise A10 pre, so I'd feel like K kicker was good.
 
mbrenneman0

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fold pre. yes, youre getting a good price, but the fact that you have to fold so many flops means youre not going to be able to realize your true equity.

as played flat call the flop.
for one thing, what range of hands does villain limp pre and bet this flop? how many of those hands do you beat? when you shove what hands does villain call with? how many of those hands do you beat?

two, youre putting your tournament life on the line when you have 3 players behind you who could literally have any two cards in addition to villain who has already shown an interest in this board with his OOP bet.
 
No1eJoker

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This is bad luck, but you should a raise on pre-floo i think
 
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Gerb

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fold pre. yes, youre getting a good price, but the fact that you have to fold so many flops means youre not going to be able to realize your true equity.

Would you play this hand against fewer limpers?

as played flat call the flop.
for one thing, what range of hands does villain limp pre and bet this flop? how many of those hands do you beat? when you shove what hands does villain call with? how many of those hands do you beat?

two, youre putting your tournament life on the line when you have 3 players behind you who could literally have any two cards in addition to villain who has already shown an interest in this board with his OOP bet.

You're right, this is better. Keeps worse hands in and let's you get away if someone behind reps 2 pair or something.
 
mbrenneman0

mbrenneman0

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Would you play this hand against fewer limpers?
with 19 big blinds, absolutely not. just calling a limp is just over 5% of our entire stack.. thats too much of our stack to risk on such a speculative spot. with 40bb i would limp behind with 3 limpers in front me all day and would probably open raise if first in.

You're right, this is better. Keeps worse hands in and let's you get away if someone behind reps 2 pair or something.

exactly
 
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Gerb

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with 19 big blinds, absolutely not. just calling a limp is just over 5% of our entire stack.. thats too much of our stack to risk on such a speculative spot. with 40bb i would limp behind with 3 limpers in front me all day and would probably open raise if first in.

Fair enough, I have trouble tightening my range enough at 15+ BB. Would you end up shoving this hand pre? KJs? KQs has to be a shove at 19BB. As I think about it, I feel like I'd shove K10s, with 3 limps of dead money in the pot.
 
mbrenneman0

mbrenneman0

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Fair enough, I have trouble tightening my range enough at 15+ BB. Would you end up shoving this hand pre? KJs? KQs has to be a shove at 19BB. As I think about it, I feel like I'd shove K10s, with 3 limps of dead money in the pot.

according to jennifear's chart, K10s is a shove from the CO at 19bb with no antes. but im really not sure how 3 limpers ahead affects that range. on one hand, yes there's more dead money in the pot but at the same time, that means those 3 players have a much stronger range than if they hadnt shown any action yet, and it makes it more profitable for players behind to call wider, and those limpers might be more likely to defend their limp with hands like pocket 5s. i know the jennifear ranges really depend on fold equity though, and i think with action in front of us, its better to lean toward the side of caution and fold the bottom of our range in this spot. I could be totally wrong though.
 
SuzdalDEcor

SuzdalDEcor

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Strait board in multipot. I think you must play pot control here.
 
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