£170 NLHE MTT: Mid Stage TJs in position versus chip leader open from LJ

Q

quant1986

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Mar 22, 2018
Total posts
599
Awards
1
Chips
2
Mid stage live tournament, still 20% field left but only 10% get paid

LJ (chip leader): >60BB, loose aggressive and very active, limped/raised many hands. showed stone-cold all-in bluff with 2To in 4-way pot and good at pushing <30BB players
CO (player): ~30BB, relatively new to the table, turn around by winning 3 pre-flop allin in 30mins, maybe considered as a lucky guy

LJ raised to 2.33BB, CO (hero) was dealt with :10c4::jc4:
I re-raised to 4.66BB and tried to get him to fold garbage hand. (perhaps I should raised 2.5x-3x here)

Everyone else folded and LJ called.

Flop: (pot ~ 12BB)
:qh4::5h4::6c4:

LJ checked and I bet 5BB. LJ called.

Turn: (pot ~ 22BB)
:5s4:

LJ checked and I checked behind.

River: (pot ~ 22BB)
:ah4:


LJ instantly shoved and I folded as I believed he has more value hands (any heart suited connector, A5, AQ) than bluff here and indeed I don't really have a strong bluff catcher (J high). If LJ didnt shove, I would have done so.

1. Would you flat call, raise larger or fold preflop?
2. Should I double barrel on turn?
3. Would you call this river shove considering his image?

I do believe I played this hand too passively.

LJ showed 7d8d.
 
K

kanselau

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Jul 9, 2011
Total posts
439
Chips
0
J10s plays well post flop in position so I don't see a reason to 3 bet a loose agro player who limp calls/raises and has you covered. What is your plan if he re raises you?
The fact that he now raises instead of limping should suggest that he has a stronger hand and is more likely to re raise you or call your 3 bet.
You min 3bet giving him the right price to call any 2 cards so don't expect him to fold here and even if he has a hand like k8o or A 4 he has an equity edge.
A bigger 3 bet would be better but I still don't like it with your stack size.
So I like a call or fold. This would depend on how good villain / yourself is post flop . I would call If I think I had an edge on villain and fold if I though he was better.
As played I like your C-Bet as you have backdoor straight and flush outs , but when you get called and don't get any additional equity (flush/straight) outs I'm done with the hand .
Never ever calling the shove on the river without blockers / reads .
 
G

Grearix

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 8, 2018
Total posts
216
Chips
0
I think I would have flat called preflop, if you bet on the flop you should c-bet on the turn, your check shows weakness. You made the right fold on the turn in my opinion.
 
T

TDTODDY

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 5, 2017
Total posts
374
Chips
0
flat calls are nice in that situation. See if you hit, and if not go away and wait to catch him later.
 
K

kanselau

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Jul 9, 2011
Total posts
439
Chips
0
I think I would have flat called preflop, if you bet on the flop you should c-bet on the turn, your check shows weakness. You made the right fold on the turn in my opinion.
Can you elaborate why you think villain should c-bet flop and continue firing the turn when called .
In my opinion there are times you should not continue firing and this is one off those spots.
I'm mostly firing if I turn additional equity and the firing again on most rivers , but bet sizing needs to be correct to do this.
 
DougPkrMonsta

DougPkrMonsta

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Jul 7, 2016
Total posts
914
Awards
15
Chips
0
You don't beat the player you described by re-raising small with weak hands.

Instead make a strong hand cheaply or wait for a big pair and let them bluff.

As played this sizing (and the odds you offered) made it so they were correct to continue with any hand.

Why not just call the raise pre and check fold that flop.

What you did would be better suited for when you have AA-QQ.

It is good to be aggressive but be smart too.

Good luck!
 
G

Grearix

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 8, 2018
Total posts
216
Chips
0
Can you elaborate why you think villain should c-bet flop and continue firing the turn when called .
In my opinion there are times you should not continue firing and this is one off those spots.
I'm mostly firing if I turn additional equity and the firing again on most rivers , but bet sizing needs to be correct to do this.
Not villain, but hero. In my opinion hero shouldn't bet here at all, so a check on the flop and then a check on the turn. But because he made a 5BB bet on the flop, he cannot just check on the turn, with another 5 hitting the board, in my opinion. It makes more sense to make a c-bet to keep your semi-bluff alive. Because Hero checked on the turn I think he invited Villain to shove on the river...
 
K

kanselau

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Jul 9, 2011
Total posts
439
Chips
0
Not villain, but hero. In my opinion hero shouldn't bet here at all, so a check on the flop and then a check on the turn. But because he made a 5BB bet on the flop, he cannot just check on the turn, with another 5 hitting the board, in my opinion. It makes more sense to make a c-bet to keep your semi-bluff alive. Because Hero checked on the turn I think he invited Villain to shove on the river...

Sorry I ment hero .
In general Hero should be C-Betting a large % of the time as the 3Bettor pre.
The Only time I might not C-Bet is if the board was terrible for my hand and good for the villains , since Hero min raised and gave the villain a great price to call with any 2 cards , its really hard to put villain on a range thus he could have anything .


The flop is not too bad for our hand as it gives us backdoor flush/straights outs on the turn that we can blast and get villain to fold a good % of the time and if he calls we can make our hand on the river and extract additional value or Bluff Jamming.
Plenty of chances to take this hand down , rather than hero calling with J high .


Hero made the mistakes
1: 3 bet this hand pre with his stack ( I don't mind 3 betting this pre with deeper effective stack but making it bigger against this opponent)
2: Cbet is too big ( I like a smaller Cbet to keep his garbage in ) blasting the turn if it favours our hand and possibly jamming the river.
 
K

kanselau

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Jul 9, 2011
Total posts
439
Chips
0
You don't beat the player you described by re-raising small with weak hands.

Instead make a strong hand cheaply or wait for a big pair and let them bluff.

As played this sizing (and the odds you offered) made it so they were correct to continue with any hand.

Why not just call the raise pre and check fold that flop.

What you did would be better suited for when you have AA-QQ.

It is good to be aggressive but be smart too.

Good luck!


Agree to the above - this is not how to beat this player.
although if we just call the raise , we are in position and villain is C-betting large % of the time , so we cant check/fold . And should call the C-bet a large % of the time with this board and continue if we improve.
Still not 3bet min with AA - QQ mostly making it 3X 3bet and occassionaly flatting with AA for balance ( but depends how tough the table is , if its weak balancing becomes less important)
 
Q

quant1986

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Mar 22, 2018
Total posts
599
Awards
1
Chips
2
Thanks everyone, I will raise preflop 3x and double barrel on similar spot or flat preflop as usual next time.
 
T

TheShek

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Feb 24, 2018
Total posts
214
Chips
0
I wouldn't 3-bet preflop, just call and take a flop with your hand. Don't try and get tricky with a tricky big stack player who is pushing people around. It sounds like he is a decent player and playing the big stack table captain well. Wait for a better hand to re-raise, and raise bigger, 3.5-4x.
 
P

PKRNRS

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 5, 2016
Total posts
718
Chips
0
I agree with just a call here preflop. However, You may want to raise higher with a marginal hand. I would bet pot size here when I re-raised. Your flop brought nothing and given the style of play from your opponent then I'm checking unless I hit something. I would want to get to the river cheaply or fold to a bet. By the river you still have nada so I'm folding to a shove for sure.After the reveal I am a little shocked he had nothing. But you had nothing so I don't fault a fold.
 
Top