$165 NLHE MTT: I think I messed this hand up. TP overplayed?

Jacki Burkhart

Jacki Burkhart

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this is a live turbo

blinds 600/1200 ante 100

I have 52k (43bb)

EP riases to 3400 (stack ~36k). He's the only sorta decent player at the table. He hesitated and I think it's because he almost folded, but I'm not positive. I'm in the SB with :qs4::10s4: and decide I'm going to 3b and test my read but then....the table calling station calls. This station has about 60k and he doesn't fold preflop once he's put a single chip in. I really want to play in pots with this guy and take him to value town. And since I've been squeezing and raising the limpers a lot lately I decide to flat (there is almost zero risk of BB squeezing). BB flats and 4 players to a flop.

Flop :qc4::6h4::8h4: pot has 14,400

CHecks to the raiser and he bets 5,500. the station folds. I elect to flat and re-asses on the turn but I'll likely be willing to play for stacks on safe turns.

BB folds.

Turn is :5s4: pot has 25,900.

I check, he bets 5,600

Now, I'm pretty sure this is never a value bet because he has to protect against the many draws. He's either trying to semi bluff a draw or get a cheap showdown with a weak/marginal hand. But this play really screams of draws to me.

so after a short tank I jam for a total of 43,000 which is 37,400 more into a pot of 37,100.

What do we think of this?
 
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Jblocher1

Jblocher1

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this is a live turbo



blinds 600/1200 ante 100



I have 52k (43bb)



EP riases to 3400 (stack ~36k). He's the only sorta decent player at the table. He hesitated and I think it's because he almost folded, but I'm not positive. I'm in the SB with :qs4:10s: and decide I'm going to 3b and test my read but then....the table calling station calls. This station has about 60k and he doesn't fold preflop once he's put a single chip in. I really want to play in pots with this guy and take him to value town. And since I've been squeezing and raising the limpers a lot lately I decide to flat (there is almost zero risk of BB squeezing). BB flats and 4 players to a flop.



Flop :qc4::6h4::8h4: pot has 14,400



CHecks to the raiser and he bets 5,500. the station folds. I elect to flat and re-asses on the turn but I'll likely be willing to play for stacks on safe turns.



BB folds.



Turn is :5s4: pot has 25,900.



I check, he bets 5,600



Now, I'm pretty sure this is never a value bet because he has to protect against the many draws. He's either trying to semi bluff a draw or get a cheap showdown with a weak/marginal hand. But this play really screams of draws to me.



so after a short tank I jam for a total of 43,000 which is 37,400 more into a pot of 37,100.



What do we think of this?



I like it. Make him pay for his draws and you have a read he almost folded pre so maybe he has QJ but he has to fold QJ to ur jam here. I'm not sure we can expect him to have any hands that can call us here? If he opened Q8 or Q6 or Q5 then just pay that man his money, but it's doubtful. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see a pair + nut draw
 
A

AlexTheOwl

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Pre-flop call is marginal. It's a one-gapper, so a low quality speculative hand. You are OOP. Your competent opponent's early position raise is a sign of strength, even if he hesitated, and someone else likes their hand well enough to call the raise. If you make top pair there is a good chance you will be behind one of your opponents. It costs about five percent of your stack to call, and you are not deep.

It's a great example of the kind of hand that gets beginners into trouble. But you are not a beginner, it's multi-way with a calling station involved, you can't be too tight in turbos, and there are antes. So I think the call is OK, though I wouldn't criticize a fold.

I don't know whether to be happy or sad on that flop, because it's exactly the kind of flop that leads to trouble. But I think we have to call.

Weird bet on the turn. He could be drawing, he could have an underpair, he could have a monster and be extracting value with a bet he thinks you can't fold to.
You think he'd like to get to the showdown cheaply. You would like that too. You've got top pair medium kicker. Your jam is only a pot sized bet, so he only needs 33% equity to call from a chip equity perspective. You cover him, but your chances of winning the tournament will be greatly diminished if you lose. You say you have been aggressive, so he may call with a wider range than usual. He calls with KQ, AQ, combo draws, draws with pairs, overpairs, sets.

I'd call, but I don't hate the shove. I think he usually folds. You are probably ahead on the turn. The opponent has a much better chance of improving on the river than you do, and you may be bluffable on the river. But at this stage of the tournament, if it's a tough decision between two plays, I'll choose the more conservative one for stack preservation.
 
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U

uavissar

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I don't like it.

After his bet on the turn he has almost less than a pot behind (please correct me if wrong). I think he is trying to look non-threatening while holding a monster. He cbet into 3 players and continued to build the pot on the turn when he is covered. He is pricing himself in. From a competent player I'd expect a big hand there.

You have a strong hand -
If he is weak- you are good now. Shoving will scare him away. Let him chase his draws and also you may hit yourself.
If he is strong- you will get snapped and hope for the best.

I call. I don't see what a shove achieves here beyond maybe getting a QJ to fold and you are risking a lot of your stack in the process. Not worth it imo.
 
Jacki Burkhart

Jacki Burkhart

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I don't like it.

After his bet on the turn he has almost less than a pot behind (please correct me if wrong). I think he is trying to look non-threatening while holding a monster. He cbet into 3 players and continued to build the pot on the turn when he is covered. He is pricing himself in. From a competent player I'd expect a big hand there.

You have a strong hand -
If he is weak- you are good now. Shoving will scare him away. Let him chase his draws and also you may hit yourself.
If he is strong- you will get snapped and hope for the best.

I call. I don't see what a shove achieves here beyond maybe getting a QJ to fold and you are risking a lot of your stack in the process. Not worth it imo.

everything you say is correct..that's why I posted it because I was thinking i misplayed this. cuz yeah he only has 21,000 left after betting turn.

It was one of those things where in the moment I'm like "that's a bullshit bet. you don't get to name your price on your draw or your stupid overcard(s)" so I instinctively raised.

then he folded and as they were pushing me the pot I was thinking "Gee....that was dumb of me, why did I jam?" I don't think it's the worst raise as I'm likely ahead and get to deny him his equity; but also I'm in bad shape whenever I get called. Basically almost all worse hands fold and almost all better hands call.

I suppose the upside is I'm charging max if he has a draw he can't get away from (like pair + FD or combo FD, straight draw) and I'm making it so I can't get bluffed on the river. But in retrospect I'm not sure those reasons are good enough to jam here.
 
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uavissar

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everything you say is correct..that's why I posted it because I was thinking i misplayed this. cuz yeah he only has 21,000 left after betting turn.

It was one of those things where in the moment I'm like "that's a bullshit bet. you don't get to name your price on your draw or your stupid overcard(s)" so I instinctively raised.

then he folded and as they were pushing me the pot I was thinking "Gee....that was dumb of me, why did I jam?" I don't think it's the worst raise as I'm likely ahead and get to deny him his equity; but also I'm in bad shape whenever I get called. Basically almost all worse hands fold and almost all better hands call.

I suppose the upside is I'm charging max if he has a draw he can't get away from (like pair + FD or combo FD, straight draw) and I'm making it so I can't get bluffed on the river. But in retrospect I'm not sure those reasons are good enough to jam here.

- He folded means he is not a competent player. Probably a poor attempt at a blocking bet.
I would take note of that for future encounters with him (if he is a regular).
 
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