$11 NLHE MTT Bounty: the important about the continuation bet!

Edison A

Edison A

Legend
Bronze Level
Joined
Jul 4, 2013
Total posts
9,977
Awards
24
Chips
16
the important about the continuation bet: me in M​/P RAISE 5BB .. PLAYER # 2 in S/B CALL .. PLAYER/BB FOLD .. FLOP = Q-J-K .... I decided to make a continuation bet of the same 5B/B .. PLAYER # 2 CALL ... TURN = Q .... I keep making the same continuation bet of 5B/B ... PLAYER # 2 CALL .. RIVER = 2 .. and I continued doing the same continuation bet of 5B/B .. and in the SHOWDOWN I win the hand!! ... I think the continuation bet on a hand like this is strictly necessary, the continuation bet helps keep control of the POT and the hand
 

Attachments

  • Screenshot_2018-03-23-14-37-06-1.jpg
    Screenshot_2018-03-23-14-37-06-1.jpg
    8.4 KB · Views: 43
  • Screenshot_2018-03-23-14-37-30-1.jpg
    Screenshot_2018-03-23-14-37-30-1.jpg
    8.5 KB · Views: 44
  • Screenshot_2018-03-23-14-38-23-1.jpg
    Screenshot_2018-03-23-14-38-23-1.jpg
    9.3 KB · Views: 44
  • Screenshot_2018-03-23-14-39-14-1.jpg
    Screenshot_2018-03-23-14-39-14-1.jpg
    9.5 KB · Views: 39
M

MattJM68

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 6, 2017
Total posts
107
Chips
0
the important about the continuation bet: me in M​/P RAISE 5BB .. PLAYER # 2 in S/B CALL .. PLAYER/BB FOLD .. FLOP = Q-J-K .... I decided to make a continuation bet of the same 5B/B .. PLAYER # 2 CALL ... TURN = Q .... I keep making the same continuation bet of 5B/B ... PLAYER # 2 CALL .. RIVER = 2 .. and I continued doing the same continuation bet of 5B/B .. and in the SHOWDOWN I win the hand!! ... I think the continuation bet on a hand like this is strictly necessary, the continuation bet helps keep control of the POT and the hand

NO NO NO NO NO.


You bet three streets at the same bet size with 4th pair?? Why?


Think it through, pre flop is fine. On the river you should probably check here, you shouldn't get called by worse and if you do it's probably draws that have >35% at this point.


After he calls you are hopping for an ace.


When the turn bring a Q, which is a particularly bad card for you, you should check fold. Unless you are going to turn your hand into a bluff which I don't hate as you block the nuts. However I have no clue what you are doing betting the same size on the turn.


Same again on the river, check fold, you beat none of his value range and he definitely is not folding anything better for 5 blinds.


Somehow you are the king of game selection and, from what I can see, got called down by 8 high??? WHAT!?!?!?!?
(EDIT: Had another look at the images, maybe it's pocket 8's, same rules apply, he should have folded this on a few streets but "hey pot odds right", you were extremely lucky to get called by worse.)

Please, if your bankroll means anything to you, don't do this again.
 
Last edited:
8bod8

8bod8

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 3, 2017
Total posts
1,492
Chips
0
I like examples of cBetting, as I hardly have a clue....
But this is a strange example for me.
I do agree that with a cbet you get better pot control and when you check, your opponent may sense weakness and start a bluff.
I have a hard time discriminating between cBet, semi bluf, down to donk with a calling station behind. The explanation seems often given by the reputation of the player (the pro's are not donks, although helmut has no problem repeatedly telling another pro that he's a calling station).
 
Edison A

Edison A

Legend
Bronze Level
Joined
Jul 4, 2013
Total posts
9,977
Awards
24
Chips
16
I like examples of cBetting, as I hardly have a clue....
But this is a strange example for me.
I do agree that with a cbet you get better pot control and when you check, your opponent may sense weakness and start a bluff.
I have a hard time discriminating between cBet, semi bluf, down to donk with a calling station behind. The explanation seems often given by the reputation of the player (the pro's are not donks, although helmut has no problem repeatedly telling another pro that he's a calling station).
if I CHECK in the FLOP I give the initiative to my opponent to bet or make BLUFF, it is best to make a continuation bet to keep the hand under control until the SHOWDOWN
 
M

MattJM68

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 6, 2017
Total posts
107
Chips
0
if I CHECK in the FLOP I give the initiative to my opponent to bet or make BLUFF, it is best to make a continuation bet to keep the hand under control until the SHOWDOWN
Yes, if you check he might bluff, that's poker. But if you start betting weak hands because you don't want your opponents to bluff you will quickly find that people will end up calling you much weaker, e.g with a pair of jacks here. Or even, people realise that you are going to fold if they bet so will allow you to bet your bad hand before doing a big raise on the river.

You can't spend your whole time scared of being bluffed, that's poker. If you are betting and you don't know if you're betting for value or bluffing, you're doing it wrong.
 
M

MattJM68

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 6, 2017
Total posts
107
Chips
0
I like examples of cBetting, as I hardly have a clue....
But this is a strange example for me.
I do agree that with a cbet you get better pot control and when you check, your opponent may sense weakness and start a bluff.
I have a hard time discriminating between cBet, semi bluf, down to donk with a calling station behind. The explanation seems often given by the reputation of the player (the pro's are not donks, although helmut has no problem repeatedly telling another pro that he's a calling station).
I'll try and break it down. C bet means continuation bet, i.e. after being the aggressor pre flop, you bet the flop, and then you can continue to cbet the turn etc. This is popular and effective because the pre flop raiser has a stronger range than the caller and thus will have more value hands and can use his strong range to bluff effectively.

A semi bluff is where you have a straight, flush or combo draw and bet. The semi comes from the fact that you often have a lot of equity and therefore can almost be seen as getting value for when you hit your hand.

As i posted in my reply to the OP, don't worry about checking and allowing the opponent to steal the pot. This suggests that you need to include some stronger hands into your checking range if your opponents know that when you check you are weak.
 
Edison A

Edison A

Legend
Bronze Level
Joined
Jul 4, 2013
Total posts
9,977
Awards
24
Chips
16
Yes, if you check he might bluff, that's poker. But if you start betting weak hands because you don't want your opponents to bluff you will quickly find that people will end up calling you much weaker, e.g with a pair of jacks here. Or even, people realise that you are going to fold if they bet so will allow you to bet your bad hand before doing a big raise on the river.

You can't spend your whole time scared of being bluffed, that's poker. If you are betting and you don't know if you're betting for value or bluffing, you're doing it wrong.
then you would CHECK / FOLD with that FLOP ??, you would not even do the continuation bet to prove your opponent does FOLD ???
 
M

MattJM68

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 6, 2017
Total posts
107
Chips
0
then you would CHECK / FOLD with that FLOP ??, you would not even do the continuation bet to prove your opponent does FOLD ???
I'd make a decision on the flop what my decision was. The opponent shouldn't have many/any straights so i could definately set a plan to bet three streets strongly and get him off nearly his entire range. This would be my go to with this hand on this board, although I'd have to evaluate that on the turn with the board pair.

What i disagree with is the fact that you bet small on three streets. You should either check/fold because he shouldn't bet any worse hands and you even block a lot of his bluffs, or you should bluff but much bigger. If you think this was successful because you got called down by pocket 8's you are mistaken. His call down range here probably consists of 77,88,99,J9,JT,AJ,K9,KT,
Which means that overall its a losing play.

Understand?
 
Edison A

Edison A

Legend
Bronze Level
Joined
Jul 4, 2013
Total posts
9,977
Awards
24
Chips
16
I'd make a decision on the flop what my decision was. The opponent shouldn't have many/any straights so i could definately set a plan to bet three streets strongly and get him off nearly his entire range. This would be my go to with this hand on this board, although I'd have to evaluate that on the turn with the board pair.

What i disagree with is the fact that you bet small on three streets. You should either check/fold because he shouldn't bet any worse hands and you even block a lot of his bluffs, or you should bluff but much bigger. If you think this was successful because you got called down by pocket 8's you are mistaken. His call down range here probably consists of 77,88,99,J9,JT,AJ,K9,KT,
Which means that overall its a losing play.

Understand?
Let me explain, the players at that level of betting with a BUY / IN $ 11 are very cautious, the players there are very good and they detect a BLUFF quickly, maybe in a tournament in final instances I could apply the game mode that you treat me to explain, I can not be aggressive with that FLOP or in initial instances in a tournament
 
M

MattJM68

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 6, 2017
Total posts
107
Chips
0
Let me explain, the players at that level of betting with a BUY / IN $ 11 are very cautious, the players there are very good and they detect a BLUFF quickly, maybe in a tournament in final instances I could apply the game mode that you treat me to explain, I can not be aggressive with that FLOP or in initial instances in a tournament
I dont play many $11 tourneys maybe 4-5 a year (and final tabled one this year) and these aren't pros. Don't kid yourself by thinking that players at $11 tourneys are immune to bluffing, come on.

However I agree, you shouldn't bluff that flop very often as it hits peoples ranges hard. So why on earth are you betting??

You do however have arguably the best bluff hand for the flop so if you we're going to pick a hand to bluff with, this is it.
 
8bod8

8bod8

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 3, 2017
Total posts
1,492
Chips
0
Guys,
Thanks for the explainations/training, much clearer for me.
Both for:
- the game setting: style of play (I've never done 11$MTT, yet... and will take a while looking at my BR:D).
- the cBet details
 
1dkp0k3r

1dkp0k3r

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 25, 2018
Total posts
137
Chips
0
Having a difficult time reading the cards on the pictures that you provided. Do you have a link to the hand history that you got the screenshots from?
 
Edison A

Edison A

Legend
Bronze Level
Joined
Jul 4, 2013
Total posts
9,977
Awards
24
Chips
16
Having a difficult time reading the cards on the pictures that you provided. Do you have a link to the hand history that you got the screenshots from?
hello, these are the forum challenge of weekly tasks that you have to complete in CardsChat as a requirement you have to use the odds calculator cardchat, you have to complete the challenge for 4 weeks to get the password for the monthly CardsChat tournament

https://www.cardschat.com/forum/cardschat-vip-program-66/march-2018-forum-challenge-550-in-367113/
 
Top