$109 NLHE MTT Bounty: A9s What to do with 2 pairs on the turn?

flattershay

flattershay

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Hi! Let's go straight to the hand. 7-max. Blinds are 600/1200 with 150 ante. UTG+2(around 70k) opens to 1300, BU(66k) calls, I call on SB with A9 of diamonds(58k), BB folds. Pot is around 6k.
Flop comes: :ah4::jc4::9s4:
I check, UTG+2 checks and BU bets around 1.9k into 6k pot, I check-raised it up to 5.9k, UTG+2 FLAT calls my check-raise and BU folds. Pot is around 18-20k.
Turn is: :qh4:
At this point, I got very cautious since his flat call looked very strong to me and this turn is not a favorable one for us. So I checked(which might be a mistake), He bets 10k and decision is up to me.
What should I do here? Should I keep betting on this turn? I'm clueless.
This is a memorized hand so the pot sizes and bet sizings are a little bit off. Open to hear your thoughts about this hand. Thanks!
 
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ssbn743

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Hi! Let's go straight to the hand. 7-max. Blinds are 600/1200 with 150 ante. UTG+2(around 70k) opens to 1300, BU(66k) calls, I call on SB with A9 of diamonds(58k), BB folds. Pot is around 6k.
Flop comes:
I check, UTG+2 checks and BU bets around 1.9k into 6k pot, I check-raised it up to 5.9k, UTG+2 FLAT calls my check-raise and BU folds. Pot is around 18-20k.
Turn is:
At this point, I got very cautious since his flat call looked very strong to me and this turn is not a favorable one for us. So I checked(which might be a mistake), He bets 10k and decision is up to me.
What should I do here? Should I keep betting on this turn? I'm clueless.
This is a memorized hand so the pot sizes and bet sizings are a little bit off. Open to hear your thoughts about this hand. Thanks!

Pre
Ok, so right off the bat, this is a bad call pre-flop. I know A9dd looks really pretty, but it just looks that way, it’s a trap hand that you end up spewing a lot of chips with; you simply don’t flop well enough, often enough to be profitable. This is a 3-bet/fold hand every time, and with <50BB’s and an UTG2 open, I vastly prefer fold.

Wait, wait, hold on. UTG2 was all-in for $1,300?

OK, based on turn action that’s a no, so 1300 is a typo that I need clarified – still going to be a fold pre-flop.

Flop
As played, good spot for the C/R. Could be a good spot to lead as well; we could go pot/pot/pot here and get our stack in the middle very smoothly (SPR ~10). I do like the C/R too though, and I like the size.

Turn

You’ve flopped so huge here – you want to go 3-streets for value, if he has you beat, so be it, but with calls, that’s almost never the case – he most likely just doesn’t know how to fold.

The queen isn’t the greatest card for you – but it doesn’t really matter – this is a slam dunk bet turn, and based on texture should be at least 2/3 pot.

We know otf the flop, that we have an SPR ~10, which means roughly pot size wagers will get the effective stack in by the river. I’d personally like a $18K bet here and a river stack-off.

Don’t check here, ever. Then again, we really shouldn’t be here, fold or raise pre and avoid
this spot entirely. But, if there, this is a how do get it in scenario.
 
jadaminato

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I will contribute my humble opinion, hoping it will help.
It would be useful to know more about your opponents, their VPIP, or your perception of them.
First let's analyze your call:
Advantages: as you were in the small blind you had to put 600 chips for a pot of more than 5000.

Disadvantages: You had no position, and the opening of the UTG + 2 indicates some strength. Plus a call from the button, that didn't look very good.

But only for the advantages of the pot, I would have paid, willing to throw my cards if the flop did not convince me.

Flop. A - J - 9. You check and he does too. Being he who opened, his check is suspicious to me. Not even a continuation bet? Everything seems to indicate that he is doing slow-play

Bet of the button, you do 3bet and he UTG pays. Your bet already indicates strength and still the UTG paid, it is clear that it has something.On the turn comes the Q. Let's see what your opponent can have. Pair of aces seems unlikely, since there are already two at the table. Maybe AK, or AQ (although the latter I see more difficult, I do not know if he had paid your check-raise with such a wet flop). Pair of kings, it would seem unlikely that he had paid your check raise. Pair of jacks? Can be. It would be consistent with his way of betting.
On the turn, he makes a continuation bet (which he didn't make before). It is clear that the slow game is not going to give him more money since he has already demonstrated his strength. But a half pot bet either. If I had the nuts I think he would have tried to incite you a little more, maybe betting less to tempt you. Or even passing and giving you a card to encourage you to bet on the river. I don't think he completed a straight because he would have to be too loose to have made an opening with K10. It could also be AJ. In any case, I think fold is fine. But it depends on the opponent. He may have had a pair as kings and refuse to release him (which happens to many people).
 
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JPainTrainSicko

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First question is the preflop blinds/ raise size? You say 600-1200 with a raise to 1300 and a preflop pot of 6k something is a typo there.


Assuming the blinds are 600bb and a preflop raise to 1300 and without knowing villain specifics in tendency this line looks like a strong hand being slow played or someone trying to rep it at least.



What a strong hand is to this player is the question. Is it a set, top/top, two pair or a big draw... Facing an opening range of say 15% and removing weaker hands down to even a 12% range this become very much a coin flip. ( Very gross generalization of opponents range for simplicity ).

As a default, I'd be getting away from the hand that is so close and finding some lessons for the future.

1- playing in position is key.
2- taking the betting lead preflop when OOP and 3 betting could be more profitable.
3- watch players more closely to understand how they think and play.
4- continue to plug hands into a good calculator like Holden Lab to understand how hands play, the equity and likely hood of certain hands we are against.

Good luck and play well.
 
liuouhgkres

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Preflop call is fine, another option is to 3bet. You can have nut flush draw on the flop, and it's not that hard to play it actually. Flop check-raise is correct. On the turn however you need to continue betting. You still ahead of villains calling range and you need protection against pair+gutshot hands and flushdraws. After you check and villain bets, there is nothing you can do here, your only option is to go allin.
 
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Preflop call is fine, another option is to 3bet. You can have nut flush draw on the flop, and it's not that hard to play it actually. Flop check-raise is correct. On the turn however you need to continue betting. You still ahead of villains calling range and you need protection against pair+gutshot hands and flushdraws. After you check and villain bets, there is nothing you can do here, your only option is to go allin.

Ummm...no
 

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theANMATOR

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I'd go broke with this hand - If I'd chosen to play it at all.
What more can you ask for with this hand - a boat or trips? Two pair here is worth taking to the end, but I do believe Villain is slow playing a monster, that'd be why I went broke. :)
Slow play is a common tactic in bounty events.

Thanks for sharing.
 
flattershay

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Sorry for the incorrect stack sizes. I messed up big with blind levels. I don't know how much exactly it was, but the pot size before the flop was 6k.
 
flattershay

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Pre
Ok, so right off the bat, this is a bad call pre-flop. I know A9dd looks really pretty, but it just looks that way, it’s a trap hand that you end up spewing a lot of chips with; you simply don’t flop well enough, often enough to be profitable. This is a 3-bet/fold hand every time, and with <50BB’s and an UTG2 open, I vastly prefer fold.

Wait, wait, hold on. UTG2 was all-in for $1,300?

OK, based on turn action that’s a no, so 1300 is a typo that I need clarified – still going to be a fold pre-flop.

Flop
As played, good spot for the C/R. Could be a good spot to lead as well; we could go pot/pot/pot here and get our stack in the middle very smoothly (SPR ~10). I do like the C/R too though, and I like the size.

Turn

You’ve flopped so huge here – you want to go 3-streets for value, if he has you beat, so be it, but with calls, that’s almost never the case – he most likely just doesn’t know how to fold.

The queen isn’t the greatest card for you – but it doesn’t really matter – this is a slam dunk bet turn, and based on texture should be at least 2/3 pot.

We know otf the flop, that we have an SPR ~10, which means roughly pot size wagers will get the effective stack in by the river. I’d personally like a $18K bet here and a river stack-off.

Don’t check here, ever. Then again, we really shouldn’t be here, fold or raise pre and avoid
this spot entirely. But, if there, this is a how do get it in scenario.
I messed up with the blind levels. Pot size before the flop was 6k.
The reason why I called pre-flop was because it was a 7-max. On 9-max, I would definitely fold this hand vs UTG. 3-bet would be a good option, if I knew how to play in 3-bet pots. Mostly for me it's a C-Bet and check-fold if the villain continues.
Into the turn, so you're suggesting to bet 18k on 18k pot. What if we get jammed over it? I don't think there's much worse hands that we beat with A9. Stacking-off seems too spewy, so is this a bet-folding hand?
 
flattershay

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I will contribute my humble opinion, hoping it will help.
It would be useful to know more about your opponents, their VPIP, or your perception of them.
First let's analyze your call:
Advantages: as you were in the small blind you had to put 600 chips for a pot of more than 5000.

Disadvantages: You had no position, and the opening of the UTG + 2 indicates some strength. Plus a call from the button, that didn't look very good.

But only for the advantages of the pot, I would have paid, willing to throw my cards if the flop did not convince me.

Flop. A - J - 9. You check and he does too. Being he who opened, his check is suspicious to me. Not even a continuation bet? Everything seems to indicate that he is doing slow-play

Bet of the button, you do 3bet and he UTG pays. Your bet already indicates strength and still the UTG paid, it is clear that it has something.On the turn comes the Q. Let's see what your opponent can have. Pair of aces seems unlikely, since there are already two at the table. Maybe AK, or AQ (although the latter I see more difficult, I do not know if he had paid your check-raise with such a wet flop). Pair of kings, it would seem unlikely that he had paid your check raise. Pair of jacks? Can be. It would be consistent with his way of betting.
On the turn, he makes a continuation bet (which he didn't make before). It is clear that the slow game is not going to give him more money since he has already demonstrated his strength. But a half pot bet either. If I had the nuts I think he would have tried to incite you a little more, maybe betting less to tempt you. Or even passing and giving you a card to encourage you to bet on the river. I don't think he completed a straight because he would have to be too loose to have made an opening with K10. It could also be AJ. In any case, I think fold is fine. But it depends on the opponent. He may have had a pair as kings and refuse to release him (which happens to many people).
No info against the UTG+2. Didn't saw from him some crazy moves or bluffs, but the BU was a losing player(but it's a irrelevant).
You basically typed what I was thinking on that hand. It seemed like a slow-played set to me too. I don't think KK will bet the turn if he called the check-raise. I assume he bets all the strong Axs and check-calls the weak ones. His 60% bet on the turn seems reasonable, since the board gets drawy.
 
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ssbn743

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Image is broken, can't open it.
edit. now can see, but too small.can not see ranges and numbers.

Oh, ok, sorry, well it's not good, 27% equity against standard ranges out of position. This is absolutely, anything but a call pre-flop.
 
Jacki Burkhart

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Preflop folding, calling and 3betting are all fine and I will do each at some frequency but folding is the most standard. maybe 50% I fold 25% I 3bet and 25% I flat

Once we flop this well I DO like a check raise. I would CR a little bit bigger though. maybe to roughly $7,500. The goal is to be able to bet the turn and jam the river and have both bet sizes be reasonable enough that worse hands can call us.
The bigger check raise allows turn and river sizes to be smaller than pot which can still get called by Ax type hands.

we MUST barrel turn. the size is the only thing up for debate. if I CR to 7,500 then the pot would be 21k and I would bet turn to about 13k. the goal is to bet 3 streets but on certain rivers we can check call or check fold.
 
flattershay

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Preflop folding, calling and 3betting are all fine and I will do each at some frequency but folding is the most standard. maybe 50% I fold 25% I 3bet and 25% I flat

Once we flop this well I DO like a check raise. I would CR a little bit bigger though. maybe to roughly $7,500. The goal is to be able to bet the turn and jam the river and have both bet sizes be reasonable enough that worse hands can call us.
The bigger check raise allows turn and river sizes to be smaller than pot which can still get called by Ax type hands.

we MUST barrel turn. the size is the only thing up for debate. if I CR to 7,500 then the pot would be 21k and I would bet turn to about 13k. the goal is to bet 3 streets but on certain rivers we can check call or check fold.
I like your line but I got some questions.
What should we do if we get jammed over our 13k bet on the turn. Do we call him off?
On which river we can check-call? I suppose we check-fold if the river is K,Q,T,J,8 and shove by ourselves on low river but can't imagine the river where we can check-call and win. Maybe a heart that lower than 8? I don't know...
 
Jacki Burkhart

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I like your line but I got some questions.
What should we do if we get jammed over our 13k bet on the turn. Do we call him off?
On which river we can check-call? I suppose we check-fold if the river is K,Q,T,J,8 and shove by ourselves on low river but can't imagine the river where we can check-call and win. Maybe a heart that lower than 8? I don't know...



you've got the right idea. If he jams the turn we don't love it....but I will often be calling here. it is somewhat player dependent, but he can be trying to go after our bounty with all manner of draws, Ax and lesser 2pair. His range is somewhat capped being that he didn't 3bet preflop. he is unlikely to have AA, JJ, AK or AQ. we block 99. of those, AQ is the most likely and I would be afraid of that if I get moved in on. I will take a read and sometimes call and sometimes fold.

As for river runouts....yes you have the right idea. I will check fold the 4 to a straight cards. I will probably check call the hearts, since he called our CR on the flop it's somewhat unlikely he had backdoor hearts. other possible check calls would be Qx rivers as he is unlikely to have trip queens and now our kicker doesn't play, but if he has an Ace his kicker won't play either if we elminate AK from his range. So we basically check to bluff catch if it's another Q.
 
Alucard

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We probably bet fold turn
Sucks cause his check calling range on flop should be very nutted. The Turn is super not good for us either.
We beat only AK but I think AK would bet the flop. His flop checking range is prob AA,JJ which calls a xr 3way
 
syarbouh

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Do you think of UTG+2 having A5h and that's the reason of his check
 
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