$.10 NLHE MTT: When is it okay to fold Aces? Early MTT

How many all-in players would it take you to fold aces early in an MTT? Would you roll with them every time? Early read is many of these players are terribly loose, as you might imagine.


Table and Position Review
Game started at: 2018/8/2 16:9:20
Game ID: 1239879739 50/100 $75 GTD, Table 8 (Hold'em)

Seat 4 is the button
Seat 1: nicknbny (7650).
Seat 2: RIVERPIG99 (4820).
Seat 3: SMILESALLDAY (2500).
Seat 4: mimimb1 (2260).
Seat 5: TherealT89 (5832).
Seat 6: Jinzo (6035).
Seat 7: SwordoftheEvening (5150).
Seat 8: CgCook38 (4612).
Seat 9: oldpetey2 (6644).

*** Blinds ***
Player TherealT89 has small blind (50)
Player Jinzo has big blind (100)

*** Preflop ***
Player CgCook38 received card: [ As: ]
Player CgCook38 received card: [ Ac: ]
Player SwordoftheEvening folds
Player CgCook38 raises (200)
Player oldpetey2 calls (200)
Player nicknbny folds
Player RIVERPIG99 allin (4820)
Player SMILESALLDAY folds
Player mimimb1 folds
Player TherealT89 allin (5782)
Player Jinzo allin (5935)

Its a 10 cent tournament...to many players it may as well be a freeroll...im getting it in here with aces...if i lose, so what - if i win, im up 4x what i started with and im on cruise control. You have to keep in mind how goofy and how bad these players are at these stakes. Get it in with your aces, and hope they hold up.

Jon Poker said:

Its a 10 cent tournament...to many players it may as well be a freeroll...

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Humor me and pretend like it's hour one of the Main Event. Is it ever a situation to fold? I mean, I know the numbers - eventually 6 or 7 random players means I'm the bad end of a coin flip against the field.

I guess what I battle with is this:

1) It seems inexcusable to "ever" fold aces preflop
2) It seems inexcusable to ever get it all-in early in a tournament vs. multiple opponents with just a pair.

You can definitely fold aces preflop. But this hand is specific to the tournament listed in the title of this thread.

Ive folded aces 1 away from the button because i was the shortest stack at the entire table...but i had 3 all ins in front of me...figured that close to min cashing that at least one of them would likely get knocked out, if not 2 of them...and if i had called, i wouldve been ahead...until the big stacked all in hit a flush on the river. So i survived long enuff to make the money, had to play short but ended up gettin 2 pay jumps before busting.

Anyhow - im rambling - in a large buy in, serious tournament - me personally - i fold aces if 3 or more players in front of me are all in....i likely have the best hand for sure, but my equity takes such a hit im not wanting to risk my tournament life on what has essentially become a flip - assuming stacks are all relatively even at that point. If i have the biggest stack shoving covered by 3x or more...then i shove over the top and let it ride.

yeah it's just a pair but you have the best equity and im very unlikely ever folding AA preflop in a non satty

Jon Poker said:

Anyhow - im rambling - in a large buy in, serious tournament - me personally - i fold aces if 3 or more players in front of me are all in....i likely have the best hand for sure, but my equity takes such a hit im not wanting to risk my tournament life on what has essentially become a flip - assuming stacks are all relatively even at that point. If i have the biggest stack shoving covered by 3x or more...then i shove over the top and let it ride.

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Thanks for the perspective. I am trying to emulate larger buyins. So here I definitely considered folding. I once walked past a guy who was leaving a $1500 buyin of wsop because he lost w aces in the first 20 minutes. I thought that was a terrible way to lose - just a pair. I get thinking “well these are donks and it’s onlt another 0.11 to get back in.” It’s weird how the inability to just put more cash on the table affects decision making!

Folding AA pre-flop seems like playing not to lose, rather than to win. In this specific hand I get this in every time.

I cant really see any situation where I am folding AA preflop. Im always playing to win and if I can press hard preflop I can get enough out to not go to the flop 4+ handed.

da22duke said:

I cant really see any situation where I am folding AA preflop. Im always playing to win and if I can press hard preflop I can get enough out to not go to the flop 4+ handed.

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I agree completely. Before the flop, regardless of # of all-ins, you are in the best position.

twaynesworld said:

I agree completely. Before the flop, regardless of # of all-ins, you are in the best position.

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Yes and no. When you get up to 5-6 players with you, you’re the favorite to win the hand, but the field will win more often than you do. So you mostly lose. This is fine in a cash game because you’re getting paid 5 or 6 to 1. In a tournament, when you’re done you’re done. So there’s got to be a point where one would rather fold.

I think it’s worth considering that there are better spots to take than a 60-65% all in preflop when I’m at 40+ BBs. I’m crazy?

cgcook38 said:

I think it’s worth considering that there are better spots to take than a 60-65% all in preflop when I’m at 40+ BBs. I’m crazy?

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Exactly what i am saying...sure if you can make the move over the top of a raise and make many fold and go to the flop heads up or 3 ways with AA, its a no brainer to push with the best hand. However - if you are facing 3 or 4 opponents who are already all in - and 2 or more of them have a very similar stack size than you - it definitely ok to fold - and in my oppinion personally (unless its a freeroll or micro buy in) its the right play to fold them. As said, you lose so much equity...against multiple opponents (3) you will be barely over 50% to beat the other 3...that was calculated with 3 random hands none of which contain an ace - it drops to 45% if i add another opponent holding AKo.

Anyhow, with that said, and those odds, yeah in a serious tournament in that situation im folding the aces and not even thinking about it.

Jon Poker said:

Anyhow, with that said, and those odds, yeah in a serious tournament in that situation im folding the aces and not even thinking about it.

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Right on. Thanks. I did end up folding. 99, 9Jo and AQo. The AQo won on a A44xx board. They rode their 18k to a 24th place finish. I lost w QQ < AKo on the first hand of the final table. ;-)

cgcook38 said:

Right on. Thanks. I did end up folding. 99, 9Jo and AQo. The AQo won on a A44xx board. They rode their 18k to a 24th place finish. I lost w QQ < AKo on the first hand of the final table. ;-)

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I played a home game at my place last night and it was just .50/$1 cash - and a guy whom id never met before got pretty pissed about his QQ losing to AK, he got it in preflop for just over $21 and got called by AK suited....from someone who was up pretty decently so yeah lol anyways. He was pretty mad - i tried to explain that even tho QQ is a strong hand its only a 60/40 hand against AK - just plugged it into the calculator - its actually a 55/45 flip...sucks but it happens.

He ended up leaving right after, no one missed him

Jon Poker said:

He was pretty mad - i tried to explain that even tho QQ is a strong hand its only a 60/40 hand against AK - just plugged it into the calculator - its actually a 55/45 flip...sucks but it happens.

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My standard comment when I get anything not KK or AA late in a tournament is "Well, I guess this will be my last hand." It's amazing to me how much these hands "change value" throughout the lifespan of a tournament. It's part of what I love about a tournament. Cash games are more straightforward, and I think I make a lot of mistakes over thinking things. I probably fold AK more than I should. In a tournament though, I know I'm a lot less happy to see QQ in the first hour than I am to see A5o in the last hour.

Give me QQ early and im gonna do my best to stack up while i got a premium holding. If they outflop me, good for them but more of the times my queens are good vs my opponents holdings.

Tho i completely agree with what your saying about how hands change as the tournament progresses. A8 offsuit in the cutoff looks like the nuts when your short stacked and its late in the tournament lol

The sit and go of 0.10c are very difficult to play because many people go all in in all hands and sometimes we end up losing our AK against junk hands.

lol is incredible but it happens and very often