$10 NLHE MTT: Facing two shoves on the turn with a straight- what now?

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uavissar

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Online tourney.40/80 Ante 10.
Hero is on button. 4K. (*I rounded the chips counts for simplicity.)


Villain 1- profitable player according to sharkscope but have only 10 hands on him with a note "limps BVB then shoves on raise" fwiw. 3.6K


Villain 2 - very profitable player. Over 80 on sharkscope. Have a bit more hands on him - 29/9/19. 3K.


Pre flop: (Pot 210)
Fold Fold Fold
V1 bets 160
Fold Fold
Hero on button with :4h4::6h4: calls.
SB fold
V2 is BB and completes.


Flop: (Pot 610)
:6s4::7c4::5h4:
V2 checks
V1 checks
Hero bets 330 (mistake?)
V2 raises to 880
V1 calls 880
Hero calls 880 (mistake?)


Turn: (Pot 3250)
:3h4:


V2 shoves his remaining 2120 chips.
V1 just calls ,leaving 400 chips behind.


Hero? (pot is 7500, I have 2960 behind).


Maybe this is a simple spot- but I actually tanked for a while here. I could not understand what V1 was calling with the way the hand played out and at this depth BB wise.


Before I share results I'd appreciate your thoughts about the hand in general and what you think are the ranges of the villains.
 
MaSSive_1

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Biggest mistake is pf, never cold call 46s in btn vs basicly any position. Postflop ok all streets call river.
 
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uavissar

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Biggest mistake is pf, never cold call 46s in btn vs basicly any position. Postflop ok all streets call river.

I obviously disagree with the "never", especially early in tourneys.
Don't you think a capable player, which both villains are, would not be playing this way without a 4 in their hand at least or even a better straight?
 
MaSSive_1

MaSSive_1

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If you are calling 64s pf there means your frequencies are messed up in that spot and you are cold calling too wide. Ye they might have 89 but thats okay, V1 still doesnt fold a set and the bb can have any random 4x plus few combos of fd's like T9hh and A8hh
 
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uavissar

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If you are calling 64s pf there means your frequencies are messed up in that spot and you are cold calling too wide. Ye they might have 89 but thats okay, V1 still doesnt fold a set and the bb can have any random 4x plus few combos of fd's like T9hh and A8hh

My frequency of cold calling is very low. But that's not the issue.


From what you are saying, V1 can have 77, 55 and to a lower degree 66.
Do you really think a good player would call on the turn with a set? For this amount of blinds? (30 something).
 
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ucdengboss

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I am trying to see a hand V2 has that is not 89. Pre flop he open raises, calls a check raise on flop, and then calls the all in on turn. This could be a set he cannot get away from I guess, maybe a mid pocket pair makes sense also, 77?

V1 calls from BB getting reasonable odd pre and could have a wide range, then check raises flop, and shoves the turn after 2 call his check raise on the flop. Again either 89s or a set make sense. He also could have a 4x hand like 45 or Ah7h. I would not check raise the A7 though nor the 4x.

I think someone holds 89 and the other a set is what I am getting at. If you are really unlucky they have 8h9h and your flush draw is also dead.
 
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uavissar

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I am trying to see a hand V2 has that is not 89. Pre flop he open raises, calls a check raise on flop, and then calls the all in on turn. This could be a set he cannot get away from I guess, maybe a mid pocket pair makes sense also, 77?

V1 calls from BB getting reasonable odd pre and could have a wide range, then check raises flop, and shoves the turn after 2 call his check raise on the flop. Again either 89s or a set make sense. He also could have a 4x hand like 45 or Ah7h. I would not check raise the A7 though nor the 4x.

I think someone holds 89 and the other a set is what I am getting at. If you are really unlucky they have 8h9h and your flush draw is also dead.

I reached similar conclusions (you got V1 and V2 mixed up), though I think sets V1 (the original raiser) should realize are not good on this turn( when I bet flop and get reraised on the flop).
I'll wait for a couple more responses before sharing results.
 
liuouhgkres

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If you were deeper I would advocate for 3-bet pre-flop with 64s. I personally never 3-bet, I just fold, but if you want to play 64s, it's better to 3-bet I think.

Flop: you have a value hand that you need to protect, and also have a nice straight draw and bdfd in case you get called, so bet. Check raise on the flop is too small, you can't fold here. Call.

On the turn, you have no option, it is easy call here with straight and flush draw.

So overall, preflop fold, postflop played fine.
 
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williamsc99

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and a very easy call you have a sequence and there is a giant pot in front of you. your opponent's hands can range from AK, AA, QQ, KK JJ to much worse hands as a 6 or a 5
 
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ucdengboss

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and a very easy call you have a sequence and there is a giant pot in front of you. your opponent's hands can range from AK, AA, QQ, KK JJ to much worse hands as a 6 or a 5
Which opponent? I can't see someone calling the check raise and then an all in holding AK. Ok maybe I shouldn't say never but calling twice in the face of strength with ace high against 2 opponents? I am not saying he should always be folding here, he has a straight and now flush draw. His hand is strong. There is a good chance that he does not have the best hand right now.
 
Bozovicdj

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Pre-flop call on the button is fine as long as you don't do that often and as long as you mix in some good hands into calling range like AJs AQs maybe some pocket pairs like 66-99.

On the flop, I guess leading here is bad, if they did catch something like a set or even a straight, they will raise you (like they did) and put you in a tough spot whether to call, shove or fold. I might be inclined to fold right there on the flop, despite rather good price, paying 550 to win 2600.
On the turn with that 3h giving you straight and also a nut flush draw, you pretty much have to call, you are getting the right price and the only hand that is currently beating you is 89 (if they are not hearts you still have outs).
To sum it up, pre flop call is rather fine, flop lead is not great, flop call is fine but fold would also be fine, turn is a call.
btw, would put V1 on a set of 5s or 7s, V2 on a straight 5-9
 
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uavissar

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Pre-flop call on the button is fine as long as you don't do that often and as long as you mix in some good hands into calling range like AJs AQs maybe some pocket pairs like 66-99.

On the flop, I guess leading here is bad, if they did catch something like a set or even a straight, they will raise you (like they did) and put you in a tough spot whether to call, shove or fold. I might be inclined to fold right there on the flop, despite rather good price, paying 550 to win 2600.
On the turn with that 3h giving you straight and also a nut flush draw, you pretty much have to call, you are getting the right price and the only hand that is currently beating you is 89 (if they are not hearts you still have outs).
To sum it up, pre flop call is rather fine, flop lead is not great, flop call is fine but fold would also be fine, turn is a call.
btw, would put V1 on a set of 5s or 7s, V2 on a straight 5-9

To be clear- if the raise on the flop would have been higher I'd fold. But 500 for such a pot and such a hand it a great price to call.
 
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uavissar

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Well- I think we had enough responses. Results time-

I tanked for a bit and although I did think there was a decent chance I was behind, the odds of me not being behind and V1 having a hard time folding a strong overpair or set were decent, I meh called.

V1 shows :4s4::8s4: for an 8 high straight. Flopped it.V2 shows :8c4::kc4: for a"I'm a suicidal reg and this hits my perceived range so you should fold your overpairs..." :eek:


River is some random heart completing my flush draw.... and I mark to post it later on Cardchat. :cool:
 
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JohnCoffee90

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gz. very interesting hand and a nice outcome for you! i always wonder why some regs play 84 or hands like these. i do not really see value in playing those.
 
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