$1 NLHE MTT Turbo: $1 MTT StarsPA in the money w Hero 10BBs

Hero has 7BB in the CO there is a min raise, call, 3bet shove in front of me. Do I have any option except to shove ??

pokerstars, $0.91 + $0.09 - Hold'em No Limit - 700/1,400 (175 ante) - 9 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat

bettertdanyou (UTG): 36,921 (26 bb)
Ply.Mtg.Ray (UTG+1): 31,168 (22 bb)
dracon305 (MP): 45,102 (32 bb)
HopDevil2222 (MP+1): 25,989 (19 bb)
JessGabe33 (LP): 4,329 (3 bb)
budgetgrinder (CO): 9,627 (7 bb)
tregoboy (BU): 31,643 (23 bb)
Doc Call N Pray (SB): 12,415 (9 bb)
eggmcmarkin (BB): 31,161 (22 bb)

Pre-Flop: (3,675) Hero (budgetgrinder) is CO with A♠ K♣
2 players fold, dracon305 (MP) raises to 2,800, HopDevil2222 (MP+1) calls 2,800, JessGabe33 (LP) 3-bets to 4,154 (all-in), budgetgrinder (CO) 4-bets to 9,452 (all-in), 3 players fold, dracon305 (MP) calls 6,652, HopDevil2222 (MP+1) calls 6,652

Flop: (36,185) 9♣ 8♥ A♥ (4 players, 2 all-in)
dracon305 (MP) checks, HopDevil2222 (MP+1) bets 8,400, dracon305 (MP) calls 8,400

Turn: (52,985) A♣ (4 players, 2 all-in)
dracon305 (MP) bets 27,075 (all-in), HopDevil2222 (MP+1) calls 7,962 (all-in)

It's shove or fold. Since you are dangerously low in chips, I can't see how you fold here. You're already in the money (if I'm reading your thread title correctly).

t1riel said:

It's shove or fold. Since you are dangerously low in chips, I can't see how you fold here. You're already in the money (if I'm reading your thread title correctly).

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Yeah, in the money already, I was debating afterward if it made sense to fold since I had 3 players in front of me. min raise, call, and small 3 bet ?? Just wondering if anyone thinks a fold makes sense?? Thanks


EDIT- it was a $1 MTT on PokerStarsPA during lockdown so Villians could show up with any 2 cards. I mean that literally

If we are not willing to go broke with AK and 10bbs then how strong of a hand do we need to go broke here? Are we really going to wait for JJ+ or QQ+ ?? Nothing to be discussed here, especially since we are already ITM.

Now, if we were at the final table - then icm implications apply and with all of the action in front this is a SNAP FOLD. It's one of those spots at a FT where we can only be calling off with AA or KK simply because we cannot afford to go broke with the potential for multiple money hops in front of us.

Hi,

What was the outcome of this hand? Which hands did dracon, hop devil and Jess Gabe have finally?

Jon Poker said:

If we are not willing to go broke with AK and 10bbs then how strong of a hand do we need to go broke here? Are we really going to wait for JJ+ or QQ+ ?? Nothing to be discussed here, especially since we are already ITM.

Now, if we were at the final table - then icm implications apply and with all of the action in front this is a SNAP FOLD. It's one of those spots at a FT where we can only be calling off with AA or KK simply because we cannot afford to go broke with the potential for multiple money hops in front of us.

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Thanks , I guess. My question has nothing to do with the "strength" of AK . Most poker players consider the position and the action before the actual 2 cards. Please check your definition of ICM , it is not only applicable to a final table ??

DoIHaveAFlush said:

Hi,

What was the outcome of this hand? Which hands did dracon, hop devil and Jess Gabe have finally?

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smile - I ended with trip A's and had 3rd best hand , open min raiser had 68s turned a flush, the guy in front of me had 99 and had full house I believe. This is from memory I did not pull the hand up. I don't have my HUD opened up. I know I lost.
EDIT - I just looked at the post, it did not post complete hand - Sorry for that.

jsnake716 said:

Thanks , I guess. My question has nothing to do with the "strength" of AK . Most poker players consider the position and the action before the actual 2 cards. Please check your definition of ICM , it is not only applicable to a final table ??

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It is not only applicable at the final table - but ICM changes bigtime during a FT. In this instance ICM will still tell us to call off in this spot, this short, with a hand this strong. Players considering the action and what in front is certainly correct and does effect our decision - but here this is just a mathematical no brainer to put our money in and accept whatever the runout may be.

Too much action for Icmizer to run normally so I just made the 2nd MP stack jam which pretty much nullifies the short stack all in as well. This is pretty close to what ICM is telling us to do in this exact spot facing this sort of action. It is a MASSIVE call off in this spot. So again - I think I know my definition of ICM pretty well - this is a huge mathematical get it all in spot. Dont be salty because I gave you a realistic unbiased approach to the situation - I'm not picking on your questions or concerns but you need to realize this is a completely standard spot and you shouldnt be questioning what is the correct response.

I have a feeling you lost this hand somehow and is why you posted it in the first place because if you hand and found the massive quadruple up here - I doubt you would be questioning the result of your play. Take this with a grain of salt, I am trying to be helpful but I will not sugar coat the reality of things - I hope in some way you do find this helpful.

With 7BB and AK there is not much to think about and even less, if you already had ITM you had to shove and see what happened, there is no point in folding that hand with such a short stack, your decision was correct. well played

The reason that I posted this hand is because in ICMizer it is clearly a fold. I know I'm a low stakes player and even though I was covered by 2 stacks I could not find a fold. So far all the other CC players have reacted the way I did, that I felt I had to call this hand.

I do put some "work" into my game, but breaking bad habits is hard. I will keep on trying. That is half the fun, attempting to improve.

With 7BB and AK there is not much to think about and even less, if you already ITM you had to shove and see what happened, there is no point in folding that hand with such a short stack, your decision was correct. well played

jsnake716 said:

The reason that I posted this hand is because in ICMizer it is clearly a fold. I know I'm a low stakes player and even though I was covered by 2 stacks I could not find a fold. So far all the other CC players have reacted the way I did, that I felt I had to call this hand.

I do put some "work" into my game, but breaking bad habits is hard. I will keep on trying. That is half the fun, attempting to improve.

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Not calling you out - I couldnt get it to run that much action in front so - can you possible screenshot your icmizer results please?

Edit:: make sure it is set to ChipBB EV and not to ICM% EV because chip ev is for in mid game/ itm spots and ICM% is for FT analysis in which case if we run it there it will be a massive fold

I cant believe, this can ever be a fold. If one of the bigger stacks win the pot, we still finish in 8. place, because we cover the 3BB guy. Also if this is a 90 man SnG on Stars, then the payjumps between 7, 8 and 9 are very small.

As for a program like ICMizer, it is no better than the data, you put into it. Does it for instance know the payjumps of this particular tournament? No. Does it know how wide these goofballs are getting it in? Also no.

It probably assume, the 3BB stack is playing extremely tight, because this is kind of, what he should be doing with multiway action ahead. But in reality he is probably just done with the thing and trying to get rid of his last chips, because this is a 1$ tournament.

For me I just get it in here, and it is not even a decision. If I bust, I play another one, and if I get action from both big stacks and triple up, now I have a decent chance to run for first place. And this is really all, I care about in a SnG like this, or at least the top 3.

jsnake716 said:

smile - I ended with trip A's and had 3rd best hand , open min raiser had 68s turned a flush, the guy in front of me had 99 and had full house I believe. This is from memory I did not pull the hand up. I don't have my HUD opened up. I know I lost.
EDIT - I just looked at the post, it did not post complete hand - Sorry for that.

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Wow guy, what a beat. Still, I give props to you as I would totally have played like you did and that is what ultimately counts. Guy could have had as well 89 off suit and QQ and you would have them crushed.

Thanks for sharing!

I would have called. You are at pushing point anyway, and you have (about) a 40% chance to nearly quad up, and 60% chance to exit. There was a small chance one of them was holding AA, but a much larger chance you were against an AXs and an under King pair. Easy call, and a good time to flip the coin for tournament life.