$1 NLHE MTT Deep Stacked: $$1 NLHE MTT Deep Stacked: GTO vs. The Gut

Do I make the call?

  • Yes

    Votes: 2 40.0%
  • No

    Votes: 3 60.0%

  • Total voters
    5
BlackThunder

BlackThunder

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I'm sitting 2nd out of 10 players in a $1 deep stack tourney on the bubble of the final table. The blinds are 2,000/4,000 with an ante of 400 and I have a stack of 123,127.

-I raise AK of clubs UTG+1 to 8,000

-It folds to the big blind and they flat call

-The Flop is A spades, J spades, 4 hearts

-big blind checks and I bet 12,000 into a 20,000 pot and big blind calls

-Turn comes a 4 of diamonds, big blind bets out 23,757 I call

- River comes a J of hearts and big blind bets 70,325 (I have about 80k chips)

- I tank..... I considered the villain having a missed flush draw but I didn't know why they would donk out on the turn. I don't have them on jacks because there is a jack on the river and that hand is probably doing some three betting. I thought that a 4 made the most since considering they donk bet on the turn although I did raise UTG +1. Overall this bet looked strong and felt strong because of the timing of the bet (they bet almost instantly on the turn and river) but I did have top pair with top kicker. I did think that a bluff here wouldn't make much sense but Doug Polk said that if you use this logic to justify a fold then a bluff in this spot would always make sense because you would always fold. So I call......

-The Villain reveals Q of spades and 4 of clubs

In this hand i'm wondering if I just get stacked in this spot or if it's reasonable to lay it down based upon gut feeling of the timing being almost instantly when the villain bets. What is the profitable play in the long term?

I'm very curious about what you may have to say about this hand and what I can do in the future to improve my game and bring it to the next level. Thanks for your advice it is greatly appreciated!
 
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MrSkinny

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-The Flop is A spades, J spades, 4 hearts

-big blind checks and I bet 12,000 into a 20,000 pot and big blind calls

To me your flop bet looks as if you're playing a draw rather than holding a strong, made hand (60% of pot). I think that gave Villain the confidence to continue, as they considered their hand made and improvable. My min bet at Flop would be pot.

That said, I think the Villain was a bit cheeky being in the hand in the first place! (Unless they read you as calling station or they're very well stacked, ofc.)

Have fun, Mr S
 
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Andy_mirON

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I would raise preflop longer to prevent a call from the hands of Q4, the moreBB just defended his hand and invested in the bank + 1BB.
And in general, the game after the flop was correct and I would have done too often call because your opponent would have to Ax
 
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quant1986

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I do like your villian line here to rep A4, AJ, 54 apparently.

He was quite aggressive to call you with Q4 offsuit OOP during bubble, suggesting he senses you would overfold at this spot.

I would be inclined to call the river bet if no ICM consideration.

If your stack is much bigger than opponent, shoving or raising the turn may make sense to deny draw equity.

Interesting spot.
 
BlackThunder

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I would raise preflop longer to prevent a call from the hands of Q4, the moreBB just defended his hand and invested in the bank + 1BB.
And in general, the game after the flop was correct and I would have done too often call because your opponent would have to Ax

By raising preflop larger in that spot I think that may be a mistake. I think that it disguises your holdings if you keep your raising preflop consistent and I always raise 2x the BB. Also I am a really big stack and by raising I will most likely have a lot of fold equity on the bubble. So maybe I could have laid my hand down because they could have a 4 and the timing of their betting. I'm not too sure.
 
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Jon Poker

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I think i start by making the preflop raise 2.5 x the bb - $10k in this spot. And if it folds around and they still call its a good flop to bet 3/4 pot or higher on to protect your hand. If they call, yes put them to a decision and either barrel pretty large on the turn or shove it in - in your case obviously your opponent got there with trips and is unfortunate but this wont be the case most of the time.

The way the hand ended up playing out, you know they called you with something...be it a draw or any other pair on the board besides the A - on the river still having about 80k in chips i think i lean towards a really snug fold and to have enough chips to navigate my next big hand and try to stack back up. Thats a tough spot there, even if you are pretty sure the opponent is bluffing - so for me if their bluff gets through on me, good for them, its alright - because with players making goofy moves they are bound to get caught sooner or later.

Anyhow, bottom line here is its a $1 tournament...your field is full of players who are way more lucky than good and make stupid calls / plays / choices allllll the time. That being said they are also the least likely players to bluff in a spot like this - they had to have you deadset on an ace, or KK or QQ because if they ship it in with their 4s and run into AJ QJ or KJ they are then pretty well dead in the water.
 
liuouhgkres

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OP, you played your hand good. nothing wrong with raising 2bb. On the turn it's easy call obviously. On the river you should call if you go by gto, but you need to be practical. If this tournament was more expensive, like 55$, you made a good call, because at midstakes people bluff enough, but in this 1$ tourney people don't bluff like that. you don't beat value bets and villain doesn't have enough bluffs in his range.
 
jmateuspoker

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RANGE OF HANDS

NESSE JOGO SÃO TIPICOS DONKEYS QUE JOGAM COM A CASUALIDADE NÃO TINHA COMO VC LARGAR POREM A DOBRADADO VALETE PODERIA TER AJUDADO SUA DECISÃO MAS FAZ PARTE DA SORTE DO POKER
:jd4:MATEUSPOKER
 
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cgcook38

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Anyhow, bottom line here is its a $1 tournament...your field is full of players who are way more lucky than good and make stupid calls / plays / choices allllll the time. That being said they are also the least likely players to bluff in a spot like this - they had to have you deadset on an ace, or KK or QQ because if they ship it in with their 4s and run into AJ QJ or KJ they are then pretty well dead in the water.

This is a really good point and one I am guilty of forgetting from time to time. In small stakes MTTs I should be more wary of people catching stupid and betting for max value. Often, I think their bad plays translate into bluffing more, but it’s actually the opposite because their hand ranges are wider.
 
BlackThunder

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OP, you played your hand good. nothing wrong with raising 2bb. On the turn it's easy call obviously. On the river you should call if you go by gto, but you need to be practical. If this tournament was more expensive, like 55$, you made a good call, because at midstakes people bluff enough, but in this 1$ tourney people don't bluff like that. you don't beat value bets and villain doesn't have enough bluffs in his range.

Thank you for the advice it seems that playing abc poker at these stakes works much better. I find if I have a very strong hand I can ship it in over the top and extract max value. Also it seems as though I can do a pretty decent job of bluffing which usually only takes one barrel. I can feel it out based on my opponents timing and board texture. Additionally, it seems like laying down your hand when things get carzy isn't bad because you can punish players in a better spot later.
 
Matt Vaughan

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shove turn


Yeah I tend to agree with Alucard here. This turn lead can be anything from a 4, all the way down to a weak ace afraid of the turn checking through, or even some kind of draw that takes a weird bluff line. These are all possible. I would shove because we get value from the worse Ax and sometimes the draws (or we deny their equity which is great in this spot).

As played, his sizing certainly FEELS like value with the turn/river combination, but I'm not folding. We are VERY near the top of our range (basically boats are the only better hands we have) and this line is just weird enough that I expect random spazzes a non-zero amount.

Shrug and call as played imo.
 
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