$1.50 NLHE STT: 4Bet AK first level 9man SNG

HerbalEye

HerbalEye

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Is it worth it to 4bet all in with AK 10/20 level 9 man sng?
I know this is a coin-flip situation, but is it worth it in the long run?

Winning Poker Network (Yatahay) - 25/50 NL - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 18 BB (VPIP: 38.89, PFR: 27.78, 3Bet Preflop: 16.67, hands: 18)
SB: 31.4 BB (VPIP: 33.33, PFR: 11.76, 3Bet Preflop: 12.50, Hands: 18)
BB: 27.6 BB (VPIP: 22.22, PFR: 12.50, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 18)
UTG: 47.78 BB (VPIP: 14.29, PFR: 10.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 21)
UTG+1: 22.8 BB (VPIP: 23.81, PFR: 9.64, 3Bet Preflop: 2.78, Hands: 84)
MP: 29.4 BB (VPIP: 26.89, PFR: 18.05, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 224)
MP+1: 23.8 BB (VPIP: 20.27, PFR: 12.71, 3Bet Preflop: 3.20, Hands: 380)
Hero (MP+2): 29.92 BB
CO: 39.3 BB (VPIP: 19.51, PFR: 9.76, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 82)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has A:diamond: K:diamond:

fold, fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to 3 BB, fold, BTN calls 3 BB, fold, BB raises to 11 BB, Hero raises to 29.92 BB and is all-in, fold, BB calls 16.6 BB and is all-in

Flop: (58.7 BB, 2 players) 9:spade: 5:heart: K:club:

Turn: (58.7 BB, 2 players) J:club:

River: (58.7 BB, 2 players) 3:heart:

BB shows J:diamond: J:spade: (Three of a Kind, Jacks)
(Pre 54%, Flop 10%, Turn 100%)
Hero shows A:diamond: K:diamond: (One Pair, Kings)
(Pre 46%, Flop 90%, Turn 0%)
BB wins 58.7 BB
 
Pokergambler11

Pokergambler11

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Is this hyper speed game? The stacks seem low. Anyway, with the low stacks I think it's fine to shove or I would personally call. I think calling is a better option because than you have the ability to fold if the flop misses you. Because you hit the flop though, and the board isn't too dangerous, you'll most likely end up shoving. With the King on the board I think you COULD have made villain fold, but than again the stacks are small. I think it's a call then shove situation
 
bushy_lufc

bushy_lufc

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Yeah I dont see how you have 30bb here is it 500 starting stacks or something?

In a standard 9 man turbo or reg speed 1500/2000 starting stack then the answer is no. Chips lost are way more valuable than chips earned in the early stages.
 
robertocoelho

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I think this raise 11bb big, he gave indication that he had top pair I would imagine QQ + in pre flop I would not call.
 
HerbalEye

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HerbalEye said:
Is it worth it to 4bet all in with AK 10/20 level 9 man sng?
I know this is a coin-flip situation, but is it worth it in the long run?

Winning Poker Network (Yatahay) - 25/50 NL - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 18 BB (VPIP: 38.89, PFR: 27.78, 3Bet Preflop: 16.67, Hands: 18)
SB: 31.4 BB (VPIP: 33.33, PFR: 11.76, 3Bet Preflop: 12.50, Hands: 18)
BB: 27.6 BB (VPIP: 22.22, PFR: 12.50, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 18)
UTG: 47.78 BB (VPIP: 14.29, PFR: 10.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 21)
UTG+1: 22.8 BB (VPIP: 23.81, PFR: 9.64, 3Bet Preflop: 2.78, Hands: 84)
MP: 29.4 BB (VPIP: 26.89, PFR: 18.05, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 224)
MP+1: 23.8 BB (VPIP: 20.27, PFR: 12.71, 3Bet Preflop: 3.20, Hands: 380)
Hero (MP+2): 29.92 BB
CO: 39.3 BB (VPIP: 19.51, PFR: 9.76, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 82)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has A<font color='red'>♦</font> K<font color='red'>♦</font>

fold, fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to 3 BB, fold, BTN calls 3 BB, fold, BB raises to 11 BB, Hero raises to 29.92 BB and is all-in, fold, BB calls 16.6 BB and is all-in

Flop: (58.7 BB, 2 players) 9<font color='black'>♠</font> 5<font color='red'>♥</font> K<font color='black'>♣</font>

Turn: (58.7 BB, 2 players) J<font color='black'>♣</font>

River: (58.7 BB, 2 players) 3<font color='red'>♥</font>

BB shows J<font color='red'>♦</font> J<font color='black'>♠</font> (Three of a Kind, Jacks)
(Pre 54%, Flop 10%, Turn 100%)
Hero shows A<font color='red'>♦</font> K<font color='red'>♦</font> (One Pair, Kings)
(Pre 46%, Flop 90%, Turn 0%)
BB wins 58.7 BB
Click to expand...

This was either turbo or reg not hyper.
But I agree. If this happend(s) again, i should just call.
Especially with the king on the flop.
I could have over bet the pot or even shoved and I think he would have gave up the hand.
 
croconow

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And if the BB had 3bet shoved?
By being first or even fifth level, would be okay call it?
 
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joe777

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In turbo/hyper mode usually you need to widen the range.
 
W

WiZZiM

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you can't just flat call his 3bet lol. he will act first on the flop and usually jam on us. I think it's fine to either 4bet jam or fold to the 3bet, there's no middle ground in this hand.

easiest way to think about these spots is to ask yourslef if he 3bets here with AQ or AJ, if he does, 4bet shove, if not, fold and conserve your chips, it's only the middle stages and even in a hyper SNG you have a lot of time to play.
 
EvertonGirl

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Calling is not an option, it is either a fold or a shove.

I am fine with the shove as you are a 65% favourite against his range.
 
S

skyllet

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Wouldn't play that way ... I believe not worth putting the tournament at risk in the early game
 
arnaldo

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AK is a premium hand and it is quite difficult to put in villain range a set of J, just because combos. You play correctly....herbal and in long run your game will be EV+....EV+..

Like others said is too early to risk AK is a premium risk hand and everybody will lose with them a %
 
A

Acruzen

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Think it is fine to call here pre flop, you have position post flop. If you have no connection with the flop then it makes things easier. I would shove if I was out of position to eliminate the disadvantage
 
W

WiZZiM

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Acruzen said:
Think it is fine to call here pre flop, you have position post flop. If you have no connection with the flop then it makes things easier. I would shove if I was out of position to eliminate the disadvantage
Click to expand...

Look at the stack sizes. he calls 11bb and his opponant has 16bb remaining. you will miss the flop 2/3rds of the time, so you are burning money by calling and folding postflop. Once he 3bets our options are limited to shoving or folding. If we call it would be to trap hands, or if we were out of position and we could shove first on the flop there can be a case made for more folding equity on the flop if we jam.
 
J

jjpregler

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I agree that you cannot and should not ever call here. My first instinct which I would probably follow in game is to shove AK. For 30bbs, I'm generally ok stacking off 30bbs to most of the competition, except for the tightest of nits.

Now to follow up my general instincts with some mathy stuff:

Your ICM if you fold (assuming a standard payout structure of 50/30/20): 10.1483.

Your ICM if you shove and he folds: 14.6291

Your ICM if you shove and win: 19.6616

And finally ICM to shove and lose: 0.9613

You opened from the hijack seat, so the BB could and should assume a wide range, therefore his 3 bet should be at least moderate to wide.

Let's assume that maybe 10% 3 bet and his call off is top 5%. Therefore 50% fold equity and AKs has 48.95% equity against that range.

50%(14.6291) + 50%[(48.95% * 19.6616) + (51.05% * 0.9613) = 12.372

Therefore, under these parameters, shoving is the ICM correct decision.

Edit: additionally, while the question does ask about early levels of 10/20, the HH is in fact 25/50. Generally at 10/20 you don't want to risk 75ish BBs with AK, but 5 levels in when your stack is in the yellow zone, folding AK in a LP versus blind situation is probably an error unless the BB is a nit.
 
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