$1.10 NLHE STT: DoN, SB vs. BB on the bubble, both short-stacked. Shove T2o or fold?

$1.10 NLHE STT: DoN, SB vs. BB on the bubble, both short-stacked. Shove T2o or fold?

Blinds and antes are $40/200/400.

6 players left, 5 get paid.

Hero ($1095) is in the SB with .

Villain is in BB with $850. Villain has been tight and has played very few hands.

Action is folded around to Hero, all other villains have ~$3000+ chips.

BB has $410 remaining after posting blind and ante. Hero has $855 remaining after doing same.

Pot size = $840.

Would you shove pretty much ATC here or is this actually a fold with T2o?

kind of forced to get this in i think. we're in second to last place, and we're up against the guy in last place, so shoving and winning this hand directly leads to us making money.

having said that, i don't and have not ever played or studied DON's so i really don't have any idea what i'm talking about in this format.

tough call at that point- hes tight -gotta push
unfortunate he has half his stack in with blinds, he'd be a fool not to call (even with t2o), still, push!
bad spot tbh, next time dont be so short stacked

i dont think that you should shove in that spot because villain is going to call u 80% of the time and 75% u are little behind, thats what mathematics says , BUT on the other hand u have only 2.5bb or sth which means that even with 10 2off u may shove and praying to double up even if ur chances aren't too big to do that...

Thanks for the help guys, this was a tough game because I was very card dead (no PP's at all, only two medium Aces) and had two very loose calling stations to the left of the villain in question, which made it virtually impossible to steal blinds. One of them liked to call any bet pre then shove on the flop, and I never hit the flop so I couldn't call.

I remember reading in Moshman's book that even crap hands like T2o have a surprisingly high amount of equity HU when put AIPF against a random hand, so I wanted to see what people thought here.

I did shove here because the table was unusually active for a DoN, I previously had to let go of some above-average hands that I would have liked to shove because of raises and calls before it was my turn. I knew the villain would most likely call but I figured that if I let him double up for free by giving him the blinds and antes, I was pretty much going to be the bubble boy anyway unless I got lucky because I would be left so short.

When your that short just wait for a hand that goes well to showdown when called, you don't have any fold equity. Folding also allows the 2nd shorter stack to do something stupid on his BTN and you can get ITM. You have about 3-4 hands to pick up something that you can shove.

thatgreekdude said:

When your that short just wait for a hand that goes well to showdown when called, you don't have any fold equity. Folding also allows the 2nd shorter stack to do something stupid on his BTN and you can get ITM. You have about 3-4 hands to pick up something that you can shove.

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Good point, although I've been in the situation more than once where I've picked up absolutely nothing in the next round and every hand has been raised by one of the big stacks, and I either shove UTG and get multiple callers and lose or get blinded down to nothing and lose anyway.

This is an interesting spot. I'm, admittedly not much of an expert on DoN's.

On the surface this looks like a fold because the BB is so extremely likely to call with half his stack in the pot and getting nearly 3:1 on a call and because T2o is a below average hand. T7o is an "average" random hand.

However...if I think more deeply on the topic...BB SHOULD call with any 2. you have a below average hand but if you just fold you essentially trade places with him without even attempting to outplay him. You hand him a gift, on the bubble.

Even if you are behind you are also getting roughly 3:1 on a push (assuming you get called and counting his calling chips in the pot) and you are likely to have at least 30-40% equity when called. So the pot odds justify jamming any 2 cards here even if you expect to get called.

But here is the interesting part. By jamming, you offer your opponent a chance to make a mistake. We all agree he SHOULD call but he is tight and he MIGHT fold.

So the possible fold equity (small chance) plus the possibility of 2 live cards plus the pot odds make jamming the better move here, I think.

Also, you will still have chips left after this hand either way, and you are causing HIM to call for his tourney life.

SHOVE. It sucks your stack got that low. But in that spot our only option really is to shove him. Maybe we get lucky, maybe we dont. But we don't wanna just fold and trade spots with him. Also, if you lose you still got half your stack. A small stack, but it is still a stack and you now have a whole orbit to go around.

missjacki said:

However...if I think more deeply on the topic...BB SHOULD call with any 2. you have a below average hand but if you just fold you essentially trade places with him without even attempting to outplay him. You hand him a gift, on the bubble.

Even if you are behind you are also getting roughly 3:1 on a push (assuming you get called and counting his calling chips in the pot) and you are likely to have at least 30-40% equity when called. So the pot odds justify jamming any 2 cards here even if you expect to get called.

But here is the interesting part. By jamming, you offer your opponent a chance to make a mistake. We all agree he SHOULD call but he is tight and he MIGHT fold.

So the possible fold equity (small chance) plus the possibility of 2 live cards plus the pot odds make jamming the better move here, I think.

Also, you will still have chips left after this hand either way, and you are causing HIM to call for his tourney life.

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^'THIS'^ . Nicely put, especially the last couple of sentences.

Thanks for the advice guys, I admittedly didn't think about it to this depth at the time but all I knew was that I didn't want to let the villain double up for free then likely bust during the next round anyway.

I had a chance to end it or at least improve my stack here, if the villain folded (which I thought was fairly likely because he was a huge nit). If he called, I was only a huge underdog if he had TT+, which was unlikely.

When I was first starting out I had assumed that rag hands were absolutely crushed by pretty much everything and had no equity at all, but I was surprised to find that even a hand like T2o still has ~30% equity preflop against hands like AKs and 99-33.

Thanks again, good luck in your games :top: