$1.10 NLHE MTT Rebuy: Cold 4bet gets called by limper

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16clumsyandshy

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So I'm realizing that I've been playing a little bit too TAGish, so when I'm card dead I'm having no success in tournaments. I'm trying to figure out some spots where I can be a little more aggressive. I'm just wondering if my stack and position here should prevent me from making an aggressive move. This is a 1$ R/A $400 GTD tournament on ACR, we are maybe 10 off the money.

I am in SB with As5d.
Blinds: 250/500
Hero Stack: 12,254
Main Villain (CO) Stack: 16,570
Villain (BTN) Stack: 16,010

UTG folds
UTG+1 folds
MP calls (500)
MP+1 folds
CO calls (500)
HJ raises (1650)
BTN folds
SB folds
BB (HERO) raises (3391)
MP folds
CO calls (3391)
HJ folds

So the HJ player who is isolating the limpers has done this several times previously with small 3bets. From is play at the table I'm seeing him as at least a decent reg who is exploiting weaker players. I decided that I would try to make a move the next opportunity I had, and this was it. I decided to 4bet small and would fold to a shove. Obviously A5o is not the best hand, but having an ace blocker is good.

*** FLOP ***: [3c 2d Jc] POT: 10,632
HERO bets (2411)
CO calls (2411)

When I'm called by the limper, I'm putting him pairs 55-99, suited connectors, some suited aces. I bet small thinking I can fold out some hands that have total air, and maybe they want to call one street with a small pocket pair and then fold to second bet. I also have a straight draw.

*** TURN ***: [3c 2d Jc] [5s] POT: 15,454
HERO allin (5902)
CO calls (5902)

On the flop, villain took a while to call, which I read as weak. I also turned a pair. There was a flush draw on the flop with the Jack of clubs, so if they have a flush draw then they don't have a pair better than my 5, so I'm okay with getting called by random flush draw cards. I also have 9 outs (A, 4, 5) if they call with a pocket pair.

I think the biggest issue here is that I shouldn't be making such elaborate plans/plays with only ~25BB. It's easy to just say "fold pre" but I'm wondering if there is anything else that I should be thinking about in this spot. Thanks a lot.
 
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I think your biggest problem here is the flop bet is too weak.

What are you accomplishing by giving him 1:6 pot odds? He should basically call with any 2 cards, was your plan to fold to a raise?

Also, once he calls you both have very little fold equity.

In my opinion you should have either shoved on the flop, or check folded. You cant really check shove unless he makes a weak bet (like yours).

As played shoving the turn seems fine, you are probably behind though. You only need less than 25% equity assuming he is calling. (Which you have unless he has A4 or a set)
 
ribaric

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I would deffinetly check the turn and bet the river
 
DougPkrMonsta

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This seems unnecessary to me, in a $1 tourney there are a lot of good spots to be had without this much effort. :D

This guy limped behind and then was unfazed by a raise and a re-raise and then called down.

I'd like to think the CO noticed the player isolating the limpers too and was setting a trap for them, which you fell into. But most likely they gave no thought to what you were representing and were clicking buttons based on the strength of their hand.

If your goal was to take it down pre-flop I'm not sure sizing was big enough being OOP with the two limps in there.

It does look like you woke up with a big hand in the blinds, but if you actually hand QQ+ I'd still be making it more and bluff with the same amount. With 3 interested parties I'm not bluffing here - string them along like this when you actually have it.

Continue to open up your stealing range in late position or 3B re-steal against 1 opener if you want to be more aggressive.

Good luck to you! :D
 
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16clumsyandshy

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I think your biggest problem here is the flop bet is too weak.

What are you accomplishing by giving him 1:6 pot odds? He should basically call with any 2 cards, was your plan to fold to a raise?

Also, once he calls you both have very little fold equity.

In my opinion you should have either shoved on the flop, or check folded. You cant really check shove unless he makes a weak bet (like yours).

As played shoving the turn seems fine, you are probably behind though. You only need less than 25% equity assuming he is calling. (Which you have unless he has A4 or a set)



I agree that my cbet is very weak on this flop, but I find that the players who are doing a lot of limp/calling are playing fit or fold on the flop, regardless of pot odds or cbet sizing. I can see this player calling a small bet with two overs (AK,AQ,KQ) and folding if the turn blanks. I agree there is very little fold equity. That's the bad thing about my stack siZe. Shoving flop definitely has more fold equity, but this is how I would play any big pair here also.

Thanks for the feedback.
 
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I agree that my cbet is very weak on this flop, but I find that the players who are doing a lot of limp/calling are playing fit or fold on the flop, regardless of pot odds or cbet sizing. I can see this player calling a small bet with two overs (AK,AQ,KQ) and folding if the turn blanks. I agree there is very little fold equity. That's the bad thing about my stack siZe. Shoving flop definitely has more fold equity, but this is how I would play any big pair here also.

Thanks for the feedback.


This line makes sense for playing a big pair. It's an easy trap to set, that basically pot commits them if they call. (I do this often as well)

It sounds like you are trying to balance your short stack play, which is good.

In a 4bet pot like this however:
1. Your starting stack is 75% of villains.
2. I'm assuming antes are 100 so your M ratio < 10?
3. You don't have enough chips to make alot of moves post flop. (You can't check raise, you cant over bet, you can't triple barrel etc...)
4. Villains Cold call 4bet is most likely QQs JJs (AK AA and KK probably 5 bet shove)

I don't see the merit in trying to represent a trap, in a 4bet pot bigger than your remaining stack unless you are actually trapping the opponent into calling off to the rest of your stack.

Shoving the flop would balance your play better. You'll get some better hands to fold (especially stronger draws then yours) and it will set a precedent which may get you more callers later when you shove with nuts.

One last thought, if you think he is playing fit or fold, why not min bet instead?
 
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16clumsyandshy

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All good points that I should be considering before I make this play. It's just tough because of how often we have <20BB in a tournament, and how limited it feels like we can play our hands. I think maybe a bigger 4bet size preflop could have made this hand easier to play as it would have made my flop decision easier (check or shove) and it probably would have gotten more folds.

As for the results, villain limp called AJo. I would think if he had not flopped top pair I would have gotten the fold that I was hoping for.
 
mbrenneman0

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It's easy to just say "fold pre" but I'm wondering if there is anything else that I should be thinking about in this spot. Thanks a lot.

yes it is easy to say, so instead of just saying it, ill tell you why: A5o is a weak hand and the only flop you can hope for is the straight. if you miss the straight, youre in a lousy position because now you dont know if youre ahead or behind. even if you hit an A on the flop how do you know the other player doesnt have a better ace? the preflop raiser has a lot of better aces in his range and even the limper might have A6-A9 in his range. this is not a good flop for us to continue on, we're getting called by any jack, and any pocket pair and when the 5 hits on the turn do we really improve to better than his jack or pocket pair? does he ever fold a better hand? no, he doesnt. if you would have folded pre, you'd have made the money.

and thats not a 4 bet, thats a 3bet.
also your 3bet sizing is weak. HJ's fold is bad no matter what he had, he should have called with his entire range just on the great pot odds youve given him. if you are going to 3bet go for atleast 3 times his bet. but dont 3 bet with A5o
 
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Dwarf

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yes it is easy to say, so instead of just saying it, ill tell you why: A5o is a weak hand and the only flop you can hope for is the straight. if you miss the straight, youre in a lousy position because now you dont know if youre ahead or behind. even if you hit an A on the flop how do you know the other player doesnt have a better ace? the preflop raiser has a lot of better aces in his range and even the limper might have A6-A9 in his range. this is not a good flop for us to continue on, we're getting called by any jack, and any pocket pair and when the 5 hits on the turn do we really improve to better than his jack or pocket pair? does he ever fold a better hand? no, he doesnt. if you would have folded pre, you'd have made the money.

and thats not a 4 bet, thats a 3bet.
also your 3bet sizing is weak. HJ's fold is bad no matter what he had, he should have called with his entire range just on the great pot odds youve given him. if you are going to 3bet go for atleast 3 times his bet. but dont 3 bet with A5o

Cold hard truths, i dont know how i misread him as having a5 of clubs :/ either way he wanted advice on the spot outside of folding pre...
 
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