$1.10 NLHE MTT: KK UTG c/c flop fold turn super wet board 4 ways

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PepeTurtle

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http://www.pokerhandreplays.com/view.php/id/8612955


First of all I disliked the flop 4 ways, then on the turn I tought like 'it dosen't worth, I have a nice stack, other spots will come' and deep breath ahhhhhhhfff and folded.

Question to me is: is there any chance button does not have the A flush ??? naaah enh ?
 
Bozovicdj

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well, hate to say it, but there is a chance :)
From my perspective he doesn't have and A at all.
Considering the action pre-flop it is more likely he would 3 bet in position with AJ+ or any Axs. that being said, just calling here, and then again just calling on the flop and then again on the turn just doesn't add up.
His hand looks a lot like KJ with the Jd or maybe pocket pair 99 or TT.
I have to say I am a bit surprised by the way you played the hand both on the flop and turn, considering you are getting great odds with an overpair and a gutshot on the flop, and more outs to the 2nd nut flush on the turn.
Also, in these spots, I like to limp re-raise pre flop. Such a small bet of 2.2BB UTG invites several calls, more so, considering that everyone is on 50BB+ stacks.
Also, you should have check - raised on the flop, to see where you stand as well as reduce the number of players in the pot. This way, you allowed your opponents to catch their straights/flushes/sets and all sorts of cards.
In the end, as played, I guess the fold on the turn is fine, considering all the action before, but I would suggest not allowing such a hand development in the future, considering you really do have a monster hand.
 
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PepeTurtle

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In the end, as played, I guess the fold on the turn is fine, considering all the action before, but I would suggest not allowing such a hand development in the future, considering you really do have a monster hand.

Thanks for the inputs. I also think now I should have done something like 3x or close preflop.

Best Regards
 
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fernandoprrt

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This raise pre-flop doesn't mean nothing. Check raised the flop would be a good play I think. You are the big stack, you want to win small pots against the short stacks, but when you have a premium hand like KK you need to play aggressive. Check-raise on the flop could reduce the players in the pot and you are in a disadvantage position as an opener in this hand. On the turn the 7d gives more straights possibilities and the third diamond card. Either way is fine, fold to play aggressive in a next hand or you can call if you feel he is bluffing and maybe semi-bluffing with a :jd4: or 8d. He can have hands like AQ with the Qd, JQ with Jd. This hand is really interesting, I would like to see his cards.
 
froggeedogs

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really surprised by the small preflop raise, I would have raised 3x or pot. the check on the flop was surprising as well. at least half pot bet there for me, and actually thought you were doing a c-raise at first..........but no. if they want to
catch straight or flush they will have to pay large for it. your draws are great here besides top pair. you also have straight draw and flush draw. Frankly, can't believe you folded bet on turn. lose or not, I would have pushed back hard. just my opinion.
 
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PepeTurtle

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This raise pre-flop doesn't mean nothing. Check raised the flop would be a good play I think. You are the big stack, you want to win small pots against the short stacks, but when you have a premium hand like KK you need to play aggressive. Check-raise on the flop could reduce the players in the pot and you are in a disadvantage position as an opener in this hand. On the turn the 7d gives more straights possibilities and the third diamond card. Either way is fine, fold to play aggressive in a next hand or you can call if you feel he is bluffing and maybe semi-bluffing with a :jd4: or 8d. He can have hands like AQ with the Qd, JQ with Jd. This hand is really interesting, I would like to see his cards.

Interesting, now I think also the check raise on the flop would be the best play. I opened 2.2x expecting to get a 3bet ahead, that's why... it didn't happen and I felt myself in a awkward spot when both button and SB called the ÙTG+2 bet.

It was to me like: What draws I will make them fold there ? (without mention, of course, a flopped str8 or a set). Also because there were like infinite good turns for their ranges and little for me.

In the end UTG+2 bet worked on my favor, I am almost sure he had AQ/KQ, not even speculating if he had the Q of diamonds, but the button guy calling was like terrible to me. He was a no bluff guy till this point on the table and in my read his turn bet is value already targeting a less than pot bet behind on the river... to me it is not like he has a Q high flush on the turn for instance, he would have gone larger imo. I think he is trying to get max value and actually the river is a killer card for him and of course it is better to shove than try value cuz it will look damn strong. Even with a Q high flush on the turn I don't think this player would commit his stack to not get a possible 3:1 (if you count at least me also calling) on his money by the river. My final guess is he had A8/A5 of diamonds.

Of course I do respect and appreciate all the inputs from everyone.

Anyways.... it was a fun deep run this tourney, I got 3rd out of 787. Lots more I would share where I folded big hands on tough spots. Poker is not easy, even with aces!

Best Reagards
 
liuouhgkres

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OP, pre-raise is ok, you don't need to raise bigger than that. I don't like using different size for different hands, because you will be exploitable and readable. Raising 2x-2.5x with all hands makes sense.

On the flop you c-bet around 65%-75% of the pot with pretty all of you hand, because this flop is a great flop for you. You have all sets, AA, KK, KJ, KQ, you don't need to balance anything here, because you don't even have enough bluffs in your range if you don't open very wide. When you open from EP and see this flop, just bet with all your hands.

As played, check raising on the flop is not an option. Villains can have sets, two pairs and etc. You will be just value betting yourself. At this flop I think you shouldn't have check-raise, but if you want to have check-raise then set of queens or KJ with diamond should be ok.

As played, on the turn, I would have called turn staright draw and flush draw and overpair makes a great bluffcatcher.
 
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PepeTurtle

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OP, pre-raise is ok, you don't need to raise bigger than that. I don't like using different size for different hands, because you will be exploitable and readable. Raising 2x-2.5x with all hands makes sense.

On the flop you c-bet around 65%-75% of the pot with pretty all of you hand, because this flop is a great flop for you. You have all sets, AA, KK, KJ, KQ, you don't need to balance anything here, because you don't even have enough bluffs in your range if you don't open very wide. When you open from EP and see this flop, just bet with all your hands.

As played, check raising on the flop is not an option. Villains can have sets, two pairs and etc. You will be just value betting yourself. At this flop I think you shouldn't have check-raise, but if you want to have check-raise then set of queens or KJ with diamond should be ok.

As played, on the turn, I would have called turn staright draw and flush draw and overpair makes a great bluffcatcher.

Thanks for the insights.
 
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ucdengboss

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I bet 2.2X-2.5X pre and have no problem with your pre bet at all. On the flop I bet at least 50% of the pot with an overpair, gutshot, and backdoor flush draw. Your KK are blocking the main concerning of the straight possibilities... KJ. It is hard to know where you are at in a 4 way pot but I just cannot give a free card on this board.

The turn is tricky as it completes the flush draw but now gives you the second flush draw, king high. I am not sure if I bet into 3 others here. I would probably check call a reasonable sized bet on this turn and the river unless things go raise, re-raise all in after we check either the turn or river.
 
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