$0.55 NLHE MTT: Good fold ?

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FailX21

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This is a hand I played yesterday evening in the big $0.55 on PS :

Blinds are 150/300.
I'm the BB with a stack of 12K (I'm like on the top 30% of the players, don't remember exactly),
Villain has 26k and is at middle position.

I have :kd4: :9d4:
Villain limps, another player limps (hijack)
Flop comes : :jd4: :8d4: :6s4: (pot is 900)

I check, villain bets 1.1k, hijack folds, I fold.



Afterwards, I feel like I should have raised preflop, this is not a bad hand against two limpers. I'm not too sure about the check postflop either. What would you do and why ?
 
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quant1986

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I would prefer checking this hand preflop, and raise weaker K offsuit hand from time to time to mix up play.

Flop I would prefer betting 60-80% pot size and hope to take down the pot. As played I would call villian bet and see how turn develops. The board is quite connected and Kd9d has good potential to become nut hands as I would expect villain would have raised with Adxd.
 
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JustSoPro

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Which hand do you put your opponent on that they would fold preflop? It looks like they are either on a flush draw, straight draw or trips.... They overbet if it's a flush draw so it would be either A high or 6xdd, they could also potentialy have T9o but a lot of those hands you still beat. You gotta call in this position(Unless you are close to being on the money, then you should raise to steal or fold pre)
 
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Edson

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Everything is Ok Here. That kind of tournament, for 0,55 is not a tournament to play high level poker, olny abc. If You would raise limpers they are call you in most of hands :/
Limp Here is not bad, but You can easily fold preflop.
Of course on flop You can only fold after his overbet
 
akmost

akmost

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The overbet is very suspicious for me. I don't know the type of the villain but feels like you can call the cbet and according to the turn card you can take a decision!You have the second stronger flush draw.If you hit the flush and our opponent has an overpair , trips or Kx it is an easy game!
 
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FailX21

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Thanks guys, I appreciate the feedback, it helps a lot !
 
Viera56

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For me, the preflop check line is ok. The villain makes a small overbet on the pot. Now, one point to look at is if you hit your gold card will it pay your future bet or push all in? If the answer is yes, I believe the call is very fair, since you are still alive in the tournament if your card does not appear. And if you appear you have the opportunity to double your chips. I would also take into account your profile at the table, what others think about you. If you're a very solid player, I might try a re-raise so it's not so obvious that you have draws.
 
Spaceman

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DISCLAIMER
Its my first attempts to pot odds, and I suck at maths, can anybody confirm if I am right or if I made a mistake?



So, first I think you made an error on pot. You have 1050 in pot. 2 limpers 600, u call on BB so 900 and 150 from the SB who probably folded, its 1050.

With a flush draw you have 9 outs or 35% to win.

Now we calculate the pot odds. 1050 already in the pot and 1100 from the villain is 2150 and another 1100 if you call, the pot would be 3250.

Now to get that 3250 pot you must put in 1100. So 1100/3250 is 0.338 or 33.8%

So your odds to win are 35% and the odds to justify the call is 33.8%.

You also have a backdoor straight.

If I didnt made any mistake, you probably should have called.
 
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Panthers15

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I dislike the fold on the flop here. It seems obvious to me that villain has a pair of jacks that he is looking to protect with the large bet. You could win a big pot by hitting your flush and probably win with a K as well so 12 outs to take the lead on the turn. I think villain has a hard time getting away from a pair of jacks at this level so you have good implied odds to continue.
 
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Ambur

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DISCLAIMER
Its my first attempts to pot odds, and I suck at maths, can anybody confirm if I am right or if I made a mistake?


With a flush draw you have 9 outs or 35% to win.

Now we calculate the pot odds. 1050 already in the pot and 1100 from the villain is 2150 and another 1100 if you call, the pot would be 3250.

Now to get that 3250 pot you must put in 1100. So 1100/3250 is 0.338 or 33.8%

This applies only when you are going to see turn and a river card. So basically you have to go AI on flop to see turn and a river 100% of time which is not wise. imo(with information provided). When you call on flop you have 9 outs to get flush on turn, which means that your hand improve into flush is 9 (outs)*2 aproximately 18% of time.

As played: for me the real question is whether to call or 3bet/re-jam on flop, it depends on dynamics plus hero ability etc. imo

Being OP i m going to 3bet on flop most of time vs unknown.
 
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Spaceman

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This applies only when you are going to see turn and a river card. So basically you have to go AI on flop to see turn and a river 100% of time which is not wise. imo(with information provided). When you call on flop you have 9 outs to get flush on turn, which means that your hand improve into flush is 9 (outs)*2 aproximately 18% of time.

Thank you, but I think Im frustrated more. I wasnt thinking about all in on flop. So whenever I want to count the odds compared to pot odds, I should do it on the street to come, and not both turn and river?

Also, are you sure thats the right way? :p
 
BnaD

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I'm calling here for sure and getting it in on any diamond. I'd put him on Jx 86 or a small pocket pair possibly trappy AA. I think small pairs will shut down if you call the flop. Top or two pair will continue to barrel. It's a tough spot given the bet size. Plug some scenarios into the odds calculator and see what you think.
 
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Ambur

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Thank you, but I think Im frustrated more. I wasnt thinking about all in on flop. So whenever I want to count the odds compared to pot odds, I should do it on the street to come, and not both turn and river?

Also, are you sure thats the right way? :p

Im talking about odds to improve your hand into flush.
If you want to see 2 streets (turn and river) 100% of time you have to go AI on flop but as i said it is not wise in this situation. For turn it is aprox. 18% to improve and river another 18% aprox. to improve which makes that 35% aprox. The point is that implied odds are great to justify call on flop (i mean you are not pot commited). imo
 
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Spaceman

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Im talking about odds to improve your hand into flush.
you see 2 streets (turn and river). For turn it is aprox. 18% and to see river another 18% aprox. which makes aprox, 35% to hit flush assuming that you are not folding turn and you see a river card. The point is that implied odds are great to justify call on flop (i mean you are not pot commited). imo


Thanks mate! I am a newbie to pot odds. I thought I was doing rough calculation in my head, but I get it wrong even when I write it down:p:p

I will open a new thread for further questions.
 
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Ambur

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Thanks mate! I am a newbie to pot odds. I thought I was doing rough calculation in my head, but I get it wrong even when I write it down:p:p

I will open a new thread for further questions.

Google "The rule of Two and Four" and "how to calculate pot odds", it might help more. I m doing it automatically in my head.

If pot odds<odds=call

Ur welcome, hope that helps.
 
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rafffinamore

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I WOULD PAY, IT SEEMS CHEAP YET.
 
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Sorin Iliescu

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you had around 40%+ equity, which is still not enough for the amount he bet, so i believe is an ok fold
 
nml

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This is a hand I played yesterday evening in the big $0.55 on PS :

Blinds are 150/300.
I'm the BB with a stack of 12K (I'm like on the top 30% of the players, don't remember exactly),
Villain has 26k and is at middle position.

I have :kd4: :9d4:
Villain limps, another player limps (hijack)
Flop comes : :jd4: :8d4: :6s4: (pot is 900)

I check, villain bets 1.1k, hijack folds, I fold.



Afterwards, I feel like I should have raised preflop, this is not a bad hand against two limpers. I'm not too sure about the check postflop either. What would you do and why ?


Depending on what you know about the players, raising pre flop is a good option. Being the BB, get paid the one round of betting you have in position vs being OOP the rest of the way.

If we assume he’d raise with 8% of hands and limp with another 32%, you’ve got about 54% equity pre flop - up to 58% post.

This is a great board to try and steal for him because it misses a massive amount of your range. In fact, your cards are one of the few his range is behind.

You are questioning the check - let me ask you this, why did you check? Did you feel you were behind? Hoping to trap? Just wanted to see what they would do? Hoping to get a free card?

My guess is you were happy with the flop, in which case betting into limpers is fine and steals you the pot a lot. A pot bet here definitely gets the third player to fold and I would guess 70% of the time, villain folds too. And, when he does call, you still have plenty of equity in the hand - you hit your flush about 36% of the time, plus you’ve got an overcard that probably takes the pot for you another 8%, and a couple of long shot straight possibilities. Outside of him limping in with J9/J6 or 99/66, you are ahead here.

Not knowing anything about our villain, I probably raise pre flop and probably open on the flop. I think you’d be surprised how often that would take the pot for you. I’m okay folding there if this guy is a tight player who rarely raises pre flop - give him credit for his pocket pair and move on having not put any money voluntarily into this pot.
 
liuouhgkres

liuouhgkres

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preflop is ok in this kind of tournaments. On the flop though, it's an easy call one street because of implied odds.
 
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Grearix

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I think to check preflop is not a bad play. But on the flop you should open with a bet, something like 1 or 2BB in my opinion.
 
Vilgeoforc

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I like your decision. 1. Your stack has already become short,and your K-9s hand has no potential except for a possible flash. To raise against two villains out of position. If the stack was deeper here, there could be a raise, but not now. Your check on the flop is correct. 2. On the flop, your opponent puts the pot and it says at least there is a Jack, but it is possible that he limps pocket pairs. You have a king and a weak kicker. You have only 18%! the flush on the turn. 18%! Not 36%. Let's say the turn shows a blank, for example, 3 of clubs, you cennete, and the villain once again raise the pot of$3000. Are you going to call? So I think your fold on the flop is quite acceptable.
 
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