$0.10 NLHE STT Turbo: How to play AKs in this hand??

No1eJoker

No1eJoker

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USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XII (150/300)

Seat 1: UTG+2 (7675 in chips)
Seat 2: MP (335 in chips)
Seat 3: Hero(MP+1) (12518 in chips)
Seat 4: CO (2500 in chips)
Seat 5: BTN (2562 in chips)
Seat 6: SB (10140 in chips)
Seat 7: BB (3908 in chips)
Seat 8: UTG (5844 in chips)
Seat 9: UTG+1 (1423 in chips)

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero :ad4: :kd4:

UTG: raises 300 to 600, folds, folds, folds, Hero: raises 300 to 900, folds, folds, SB: raises 9210 to 10110 and is all-in, folds, UTG: calls 5214 and is all-in, Hero??

Call here or not??
 
oakthyago

oakthyago

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You was really deep. The best that you could have was a dominated Ace or a coin flip that would happens more frequently. it was a good fold more because the guy who put the all in was deep too ( if its possible to be deep in a turbo tournament because next hand the blinds goes up)

what intrigues me is why you 3bet 600 to 900. would be more standard a 2x-3x raise, maybe that gives the reason to the other guy goes all in even if he had a AQ+
 
No1eJoker

No1eJoker

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I call here, SB had lucky on the river. :(


Hero: calls 9210

*** FLOP *** :3c4: :ah4: :5d4:

*** TURN *** :6h4:

*** RIVER *** :10d4:

*** SHOW DOWN ***
SB: shows :10c4: :10s4: (three of a kind, Tens)
Hero: shows :ad4: :kd4: (a pair of Aces)
SB collected 8592 from side pot
UTG: shows :qc4: :qd4: (a pair of Queens)
SB collected 18012 from main pot
 
K

kozong

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id go 1600 & call the shove
 
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GiGiCat

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AK is not as strong as most think

When somebody comes out shooting 2X BB UTG normally I'm giving them a very narrow hand range. I'm putting them on of 99+ and no high suited connectors at all unless he/she has only 10 BB left or less, which this villain still had 22.25 BB.

Reason I put them on such a narrow hand range is that, with that small of a bet I believe they want at least one caller, if they are sadistic...they'll want more callers. When somebody wants callers they have a strong hand.

When one shoves UTG I personally widen the hand range a bit to 77+, A10s+, AJo+ Some will shove with weird or awkward stack sizes with any pair because they're not sure what to do.

Hero min-raises...bad hero bad...when ya gotta poop, go outside.

No but seriously that wasn't a great move and from what ya wrote ya understand that. If ya have to raise with a high suited pair when it was already min-raised and there is still half the table left to act one must give them a meaningful decision. By that I mean a shove or take the BB X3 and add the raise amount to that, that makes the pot odds difficult to call, if villain still shoves it time to re-evaluate what to do.

Also 2 of those players had shove or fold stacks, less than 10 BB. The SB had ~80% of your stack and had yet to act.

Personally I'm not a huge fan of AKo except in HJ, CO or the Button, any other position I'll usually fold or just call. (like just now, I just called with it, guy turned trip 8s and I rivered a flush, 4 of which were on the board, gotta love ACR's 4 card board flushes;))

AKs on the other hand is a good prospective hand, and if I don't get 2 pair or 12 outs or more I generally just fold them. Unless an A comes out with TPTK and then re-evaluate after each new board card. Honestly once SB shoved Preflop I would have folded them. Ya got a raise, Hero re-raised and a Re-re-raise and any pair is the best hand right now. Think Kenny Rogers and know when. :)
 
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No1eJoker

No1eJoker

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I basically play good but I have oscillations in the game, and sometimes when I lose patience I hurry and call on some cards with whom I know I will lose :(
 
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Gerb

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Personally I'm not a huge fan of AKo except in HJ, CO or the Button, any other position I'll usually fold or just call.

AKs on the other hand is a good prospective hand, and if I don't get 2 pair or 12 outs or more I generally just fold them.


Are you saying you fold AK unless you're in the hijack or later?! Even if you're limping AK from middle position I can't imagine that is a money making play.

And if you open AKs and hit a K, you fold to any pressure?! Thats a good way to never make any money.

Playing unreasonably scared is a huge leak, its all about balance. It sounds like you'd be losing huge amounts of value if your description of your play is accurate.
 
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Gerb

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A 0.10 buy in tourny will usually be loose, SB could be shoving any pair and AJ+, and the call by the original raiser doesn't mean JJ+ or AK either, so im not scared to get it in here.

Im making it 1400 pre and calling the shove. The answer may be different for a 100 buy in tourny, but at this level there is enough erractic play that im never folding AKs pre.
 
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trent32la

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id go 1600 & call the shove

+1, your 3bet sizing here is way too small, very rarely would one advocate min 3betting. Vs a 20bb stack I'm making it 1500-1600 here as you can have a 3B/fold range to that size and you aren't giving your opponent incredible odds to flat.

As played call it off, I would fold AQ though.
 
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bumerangue

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Standard, you just cant fold the top top of your range, plus you are possibly blocking AA, KK and dominating any other A, unfortunally just got unlucky
 
GiGiCat

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Are you saying you fold AK unless you're in the hijack or later?! Even if you're limping AK from middle position I can't imagine that is a money making play.

And if you open AKs and hit a K, you fold to any pressure?! Thats a good way to never make any money.

Playing unreasonably scared is a huge leak, its all about balance. It sounds like you'd be losing huge amounts of value if your description of your play is accurate.

No, I didn't say that, I said " I'll usually fold or just call", depending on the position, the action before me, tournament level and my chip stack size.

I stated those with equal weight, I'll call as many as I fold in the long run, The more I know the players the more accurate I can be on what the situation holds.

Bit of Trivia for ya, person holds AKo goes all in, Person calls two totally random cards (pick any two doesn't matter) those two random cards will win 35% of the time, and that's just random with no info on players, chip stacks, level. AKo against pocket 2's, race yep...2's still win about 53% of time

I had AKo twice in an online tournament yesterday and played them both times and won both times. A flush once and bluff my butt off the other, end up 15 place out of 799 players.

Yet 3 days ago in online tourney, had AKo 5 times in a tournament folded 3 of those times in EP (would have lost 2 of them and don't know about the third time as didn't go to showdown) and the two time I did play tried everything in arsenal to get him/her to fold and still lost to a small pocket pair and won the other uncontested, and placed 19th of 685 people.

Again with TPTK depends on board texture and players. One can't ball every together when getting TPTK with AK in to one action without all the other info need to make an educated decision and that is were the bold faced words "Prospective and generally" came in.

What I am and was trying to say, is that, just because one has a strong starting hand doesn't mean they have to see a showdown with it. I've folded Pocket A's, K's and so on before, not because I was scared but because the situation dictated me to do so. Sometimes I was wrong, most of the time I'm correct.

Regards,
GiGiCat
 
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GiGiCat

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And yes, if ever in a similar position as the gentleman that made this post, when UTG 2X BB, then Hero re-raised and SB shoved with same relative chip stacks, and a call from UTG, I will be folding nearly every time. Again, depending on all the circumstances combined.
 
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MrGreen13

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A 0.10 buy in tourny will usually be loose, SB could be shoving any pair and AJ+, and the call by the original raiser doesn't mean JJ+ or AK either, so im not scared to get it in here.

Im making it 1400 pre and calling the shove. The answer may be different for a 100 buy in tourny, but at this level there is enough erractic play that im never folding AKs pre.

I agree, in this levels of buy-ins I am happy to go all-in with AKs even against two players. I think that the fold here is EV- in the long run.

Regards.
 
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ph_il

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+1, your 3bet sizing here is way too small, very rarely would one advocate min 3betting. Vs a 20bb stack I'm making it 1500-1600 here as you can have a 3B/fold range to that size and you aren't giving your opponent incredible odds to flat.

As played call it off, I would fold AQ though.
+1 the +1
 
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