$0.10 NLHE MTT Rebuy: Should I open shove here with 14BB?

neverbluff · Sep 17, 2018

BTN: 20.28 BB (VPIP: 7.69, PFR: 9.09, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 13)
SB: 11.28 BB (VPIP: 17.58, PFR: 13.48, 3Bet Preflop: 6.67, Hands: 94)
BB: 21.87 BB (VPIP: 28.05, PFR: 10.53, 3Bet Preflop: 3.33, Hands: 83)
UTG: 7.85 BB (VPIP: 6.67, PFR: 2.33, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 45)
Hero (UTG+1): 13.54 BB
MP: 53.77 BB (VPIP: 20.00, PFR: 18.97, 3Bet Preflop: 8.33, Hands: 60)
MP+1: 35.36 BB (VPIP: 19.70, PFR: 15.63, 3Bet Preflop: 9.09, Hands: 68)
CO: 10.42 BB (VPIP: 25.00, PFR: 33.33, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 4)

8 players post ante of 0.13 BB, SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 2.5 BB) Hero has T♥ A♥

fold, Hero raises to 2 BB, fold, fold, CO raises to 10.29 BB and is all-in, fold, fold, fold, Hero calls 8.29 BB

Flop: (23.09 BB, 2 players) T♦ T♠ 3♠

Turn: (23.09 BB, 2 players) Q♠

River: (23.09 BB, 2 players) 5♠

This was ITM and 14 BB seemed like a weird stack size to shove at the time. Maybe it's a really obvious shove, and I haven't played enough MTTs?

Mepper95 · Sep 17, 2018

To me this would be a shove. My shoving range with 13bb UTG+1 assuming there's no action from UTG with 12.5% antes consists of 44+, A8s+, A5s, ATo+, K9s+, KQo+, Q9s+, J9s+ and T9s.

Mainly concerned of getting it through MP considering stack sizes, although with 13BB you have enough fold equity imo. Still a very considerate call to make, so they would need a very strong holding to consider calling it off.

Matt Vaughan · Sep 17, 2018

This is a pretty clear shove, especially from this position imo. With 13.5bb, you could CONSIDER min raising if that's near the standard size, and you are closer to the button. But if the normal open is a little larger at your table, I just prefer a jam because you're gonna often not garner enough fold equity from a min raise to even make it worth opening AT from so early.

To give an example, in a live tourney today I opened to 2.7k with AK at the 600/1,200 level with a 1,200 big blind ante. The BB defended. We checked it down on JT7 2 T. The BB showed 82o. Someone at the table laughed, and the BB said "he didn't open it big enough for me to fold" as if it was obvious they had to call with any two (even though I went larger than a min raise mind you).

The normal open on that particular table was around 3-4bb so my sizing appeared really small, even though it was larger than a min raise (which could have been considered a more theoretically sound open at this stage of the tournament).

neverbluff · Sep 18, 2018

Around what stack size would you consider min raising this hand from UTG+1 instead of open shoving? I'd have a hard time open shoving this at 20BB, but maybe it's just a profitable shove?

neverbluff · Sep 19, 2018

Villain had A9s suited here and hit the backdoor flush btw.

Matt Vaughan · Sep 19, 2018

Given you are UTG+1, I wouldn't be shocked if this shifts from being a jam to a fold depending on stack size tbh. Even suited, AT is a bit wide from up front until you get substantially deeper stacked. I'd probably stop jamming it around 16-17bb and just be folding instead.

cgcook38 · Sep 20, 2018

Scourrge said:
Given you are UTG+1, I wouldn't be shocked if this shifts from being a jam to a fold depending on stack size tbh. Even suited, AT is a bit wide from up front until you get substantially deeper stacked. I'd probably stop jamming it around 16-17bb and just be folding instead.

This is where I was before reading these responses. When I feel I’m playing well, I generally fold this from such an early position with this stack size. If I’m not feeling comfortable with my patience level, I’ll go ahead and shove here. It’s borderline, but I’ll almost never put in standard raise. I don’t want a single caller.

8 handed it’s super borderline. I’m not happy about folding it either, but it fits with my personal gameplan. If it were 6 or 7 handed and UTG folds I think the shove is auto for me.

pauloandre100 · Nov 2, 2018

I shoved something like this: 77+, AJo+, ATs+, KTs+

Jacki Burkhart · Nov 3, 2018

neverbluff said:
Around what stack size would you consider min raising this hand from UTG+1 instead of open shoving? I'd have a hard time open shoving this at 20BB, but maybe it's just a profitable shove?

SnapShove is worth it's weight in gold for these situations. I am not affiliated with the company. there is a free version that will cover many common spots and you can pay a 1 time $15 fee for the full App which is indispensible for any tourney player.

inputting this spot into snapshove shows that this is a profitable shove

SnapShove continues recommending a shove up until 25 bb, however the app can only process push/fold scenarios and I think we have more profitable options than push fold as the stack gets bigger.

somewhere around 16-18bb I start to prefer making a standard raise with this hand, but it depends on your table dynamics somewhat.

The easier time you're having making chips at your table the more opportunities you are looking for to min raise. The fewer players seem to be 3betting the more min raises you want to make. the reverse is true if you keep being outplayed then look to more shoves with ATs at the 16-18bb depth. if you keep getting 3b jammed on, then do less minraising and more shoving at 16-18bb

neverbluff · Nov 3, 2018

missjacki said:
SnapShove is worth it's weight in gold for these situations. I am not affiliated with the company. there is a free version that will cover many common spots and you can pay a 1 time $15 fee for the full app which is indispensible for any tourney player.

inputting this spot into snapshove shows that this is a profitable shove

SnapShove continues recommending a shove up until 25 bb, however the app can only process push/fold scenarios and I think we have more profitable options than push fold as the stack gets bigger.

somewhere around 16-18bb I start to prefer making a standard raise with this hand, but it depends on your table dynamics somewhat.

The easier time you're having making chips at your table the more opportunities you are looking for to min raise. The fewer players seem to be 3betting the more min raises you want to make. the reverse is true if you keep being outplayed then look to more shoves with ATs at the 16-18bb depth. if you keep getting 3b jammed on, then do less minraising and more shoving at 16-18bb

I use the floattheturn push/fold charts. It's similar, but I like it because you can adjust how tight/loose you want your range to be by +/- 10% increments. It doesn't have reshoves though.

I'm going to try min raising more around 16-18bb+. I tend to just get it in and hope for the best because I just hate the feeling of getting pushed off my hand when I check OOP or getting pot committed OOP when I check/call the flop

Jacki Burkhart · Nov 3, 2018

neverbluff said:
I use the floattheturn push/fold charts. It's similar, but I like it because you can adjust how tight/loose you want your range to be by +/- 10% increments. It doesn't have reshoves though.

I'm going to try min raising more around 16-18bb+. I tend to just get it in and hope for the best because I just hate the feeling of getting pushed off my hand when I check OOP or getting pot committed OOP when I check/call the flop

great as long as you have a resource that's the main thing. Is this something you have easily available to you on your phone while you're playing?

neverbluff · Nov 3, 2018

missjacki said:
great as long as you have a resource that's the main thing. Is this something you have easily available to you on your phone while you're playing?

Yea it's just a browser web app. I checked the difference in a few spots. FloatTheTurn tends to like unsuited aces more and SnapShove likes the 1/2 gapped Broadway cards. I have a feeling snapshove might be ,more accurate against optimal opponents, but honestly I kind of like having the A blocker at the micros. A lot of these low stakes opponents aren't calling shoves optimally, and I tend to tighten my range versus loose opponents anyway.

julianjjboy · Nov 7, 2018

14-15bb shove ATs ,I think that's fine, you can't wait and you can't let other player see the cheap flop, so preflop shove is good choice.

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$0.10 NLHE MTT Rebuy: Should I open shove here with 14BB?

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