would you have bet the river?

Stage #1202141309: Holdem No Limit $0.25 - 2009-01-13 01:14:22 (ET)
Table: BEAUMONT AVE (real money) Seat #6 is the dealer
Seat 6 - BORNAGAIN_13 ($6.75 in chips)
Seat 1 - BLUFFINGYOU1 ($57.89 in chips)
Seat 2 - THAGUNSRDRAWN ($35.63 in chips)
Seat 3 - TOXMADA ($25.41 in chips)
Seat 4 - SOWHATMOFRO ($18.38 in chips)
Seat 5 - UUUUP ($50.34 in chips)
BLUFFINGYOU1 - Posts small blind $0.10
THAGUNSRDRAWN - Posts big blind $0.25
*** POCKET CARDS ***
Dealt to SOWHATMOFRO [Ac Kd]
TOXMADA - Raises $0.75 to $0.75
SOWHATMOFRO - Calls $0.75
UUUUP - Folds
BORNAGAIN_13 - Calls $0.75
BLUFFINGYOU1 - Folds
THAGUNSRDRAWN - Calls $0.50
*** FLOP *** [10s 10c 9s]
THAGUNSRDRAWN - Checks
TOXMADA - Checks
SOWHATMOFRO - Bets $1
BORNAGAIN_13 - Folds
THAGUNSRDRAWN - Folds
TOXMADA - Calls $1
*** TURN *** [10s 10c 9s] [Ah]
TOXMADA - Checks
SOWHATMOFRO - Bets $2.25
TOXMADA - Calls $2.25
*** RIVER *** [10s 10c 9s Ah] [10h]
TOXMADA - Checks
SOWHATMOFRO - ???

I personally would just checks this down, I mean what are you going to do, if the person check/raises ALL-IN? Better play this one passive on the river, if you win you win, and if you split you split and if you lose, you lost little not much. But that's just me

Im betting the river hoping for a call from a 9 or a PP and obvs. any ace is calling as well,if he has a ten there is nothing u can do.
Reads or stats would be helpfull cause a lot villains are never calling here with less then a ace so we would just be feeding the rake but against a unknown im betting here.
I also 3bet this preflop hoping to get HU in position or take the pot down right now.
I dont like your bet sizing,on the flop if your gonna bet(witch i wouldnt do seeing how u only smooth called prf and it turned in to multiway pot) i would make it closer to pot sized,something like 2,50 on the flop,4$ on the turn.

Ofc you bet, how could anybody even consider checking this :S

OMG, bet and call a shove. sheesh. You can't slow down with third nuts because you're afraid of the case card, esp. when you know no one can fold any fullhouse. You can even get calls from KQ. If he's check-calling trips/quads three streets he's an idiot.

*** RIVER *** [10s 10c 9s Ah] 10♥
TOXMADA - Checks
SOWHATMOFRO - Checks
*** SHOW DOWN ***
TOXMADA - Shows [Qh Qs] (Full house, tens full of queens)
SOWHATMOFRO - Shows [Ac Kd] (Full house, tens full of aces)
SOWHATMOFRO Collects $9.12 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total Pot($9.60) | Rake ($0.48)
Board [10s 10c 9s Ah 10h]
Seat 1: BLUFFINGYOU1 (small blind) Folded on the POCKET CARDS
Seat 2: THAGUNSRDRAWN (big blind) Folded on the FLOP
Seat 3: TOXMADA HI:lost with Full house, tens full of queens [Qh Qs - B:10s,B:10h,B:10c,P:Qs,P:Qh]
Seat 4: SOWHATMOFRO won Total ($9.12) HI$9.12) with Full house, tens full of aces [Ac Kd - B:10s,B:10h,B:10c,B:Ah,P:Ac]
Seat 5: UUUUP Folded on the POCKET CARDS
Seat 6: BORNAGAIN_13 (dealer) Folded on the FLOP

So I did not raise the river.
My thought process was as follows;

Unlikely he calls a bet with any pp but AA
If he has an ace we just pay more rake
If he is making a genius play and slow rolling the ten I'm busted
If I bet and he reraises I'm calling but once again rake, ten, or AA

Are any/all these thought unfounded?

yes.

I would have bet it. Thats just me. If i put out another $1 as a value bet and he calls then we probably split. If he folds you had it all along. If he jumps and goes over the top he's been waiting for his moment to pounce. I'd call another $1 if he raised but anything more just wouldn't be justified.

Standard shove for value on river. Zeeboo theorem: Nobody ever folded a full house.

obv value bet on the river

I'd fire out a standard value bet, but no way would I call a raise much more than a min-bet. The only hands I can figure we "beat" that would call the flop and raise the river are A9, AK, and AsXs. And all of those are chops, not wins. A ten or AA is much more likely to raise the river and more likely to call the flop than a random ace.

So what do we get value from for betting? Since you bet the flop, he's unlikely to put you on an ace, and he might call with JJ, QQ, or KK.

I think that Zeebo theorem is a bit extreme in general, and this isn't the best spot to apply it, because there's an ace on the board. The vast majority of his calling range should be an ace or better if you shove. That whole "nobody ever folds a full house" rule is bull%$*&. That's the kind of stuff you see at penny stakes, not at .1/.25. I don't even think unsophisticated players view this as a full house, either. I think they'd see it as one pair, because that's what they hit with their hole cards. If we had the ten, then it's likely worth overbetting in order to get him to pay off big with an ace. Just the ace isn't a dominant enough hand to overbet with, though.

I doubt someone with quads here would check raise the river in case they don't get paid full value.

frisellan said:

*** RIVER *** [10s 10c 9s Ah] 10♥

So I did not raise the river.

My thought process was as follows;


Unlikely he calls a bet with any pp but AA

If he has an ace we just pay more rake

If he is making a genius play and slow rolling the ten I'm busted

If I bet and he reraises I'm calling but once again rake, ten, or AA


Are any/all these thought unfounded?

Click to expand...

so can someone walk me through each of these thoughts and tell me why I'm a crazy SOB?

Because you have a big hand you can bet for value, and because Zeebo Theorem applies: you'll get calls from worse because no one can fold a full house (you also get looked up by K-high sometimes).

Not only do I bet the river, I shove.

Now 2 questions:
1. Why do you have less than $25 in your stack at the start of this hand???
2. WTF are you not 3betting AK preflop???? AK v QQ with less than 100bb effective stacks should have been AIPF.