Would you go broke here also?

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Freakakanus

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How many people would go broke here like I did? I knew I was behind but with the flush and straight draws I figured I should take the chance. I know I'll get a couple fold pre-flop's here but with the BB already at 1000, I don't think it was to bad of a call, then the flop of course......well you can see. Oh, and for the pot odds guys....did I have the right odds to call?
 

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DESSERTLADY

DESSERTLADY

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Freak, I think your preflop call was fine. If you had raised it up being in late position he might have pushed probably then. Otherwise leaving you short stacked if you had folded or the same results if you had called allin then.

I'm not sure what I have done after that flop. Most likely if you had any kind of read on this guy(not sure) had he been playing just about any hand he could limp in with? (the way it looks he pushed allin first?)I'm not sure if I would have called an allin on a draw on the flop like that with a flush possibility out there and an Ace. Even though you had the King of Hearts and the straight draw.

Being the wimp that I am sometimes, I might have layed it down to see a better hand to go allin with.
 
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AceZWylD

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Your preflop play here was fine. I would not have called an all in here with a draw. I know you were short stacked and needed to make a move either here or shortly thereafter, but I would have waited until I had an opponent who was not representing a strong hand post flop.
 
spore

spore

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I probably would have raised preflop (yes in this instance you were behind but the guy limped, normally a raise there is correct).

The flop? I would get away from that quick. You're risking your tournament life on a flush and gut-shot-straight draw. 10 outs, you are definitely a favorite to lose the hand. If it had been all-in + a call to you, then it would've been correct.

So the answer... no way man, I wouldn't have gone broke. I'd only call on the draw if he gave me the odds to do so. About 20% to hit on each street, you'd have to be getting 4-1 on your money at least to call it.
 
Dorkus Malorkus

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Pushing all in here is okay. Calling a push is not.
 
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colin_147

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I dont think the post flop play is particularly bad. A call preflop shorthanded is also a pretty standard play with KQos

I wouldnt be over worried by the guys massive overbet on the flop. Its pretty obvious he does not have any kind of flush draw, or if he does it will be weak.

Its tough to lay the hand down with a gutshot and a flush draw but it really depends if you wanna take a chance on a coinflip. You chose to and on this occasion you missed

If you had raised preflop, you would certainly have got called by AJ, and he still would have moved all in on the flop
 
medeiros13

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Freakakanus said:
I knew I was behind but with the flush and straight draws I figured I should take the chance.

This statement is why I say fold after the OP goes all in. You're not quite short stacked yet (I go by Dan Harrington's definition of 10xBB being short stacked) so fold and wait for a hand where you're a favorite to push.

You asked about pot odds as well. Oddly enough, I think you're getting favorable pot odds. You are committing 13k to a 28k pot. That's about 46%. You have 8 outs to hit the flush draw and 4 to hit your straight. If you use the 4/2 rule, you have 48% chance to hit your straight or flush. So if your playstyle is to call anytime you get favorable pot odds, you've got them here unless I'm missing something.
 
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Dingodaddy23

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no way should you go broke there. fold and make moves pre-flop, you still have 12x BB which is enough to have *some* fold equity. Open-push marginal hands from LP when it's folded to you, things like that to steal blinds and accumulate chips. Try to accumulate as many chips as you can without having to showdown any hands. When you push you want to be the first player into the pot. There was no reason for you to go broke there with just a flush draw.
 
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Fish

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You can't call that flop bet. No way, no how never.
 
starfall

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Straight and Flush draws, against a probable better hand if you don't improve, a possible made flush which would eliminate the Straight draw...
At best you've got 13 outs, and will make your hand about half of the time. However, if you miss your hand then you're out, so since you're the shorter stack you generally don't want to call. In a ring game the call would be OK because the odds just about favour the call (although with big variance), but with your whole tournament at risk it's not worth it.
 
Stick66

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Dorkus Malorkus said:
Pushing all in here is okay. Calling a push is not.

Yeah, what he said.

To be precise, you had 12 outs known to you (9 hearts & 3 non-heart Jacks). But in actuality, you only had 11 since he had 1 Jack. So if you use that odds card I sent you, you'll find that on the flop you had about 3-1 break-even odds twice (2 cards to come).

Tough to keep it simple, but I'll try: If he were to put out a pot-sized bet on the flop, it would be 2-1 for you to call. But with implied odds (money you think will go in on further streets), this would be worth the call. For anything more, you would have to do some serious calculating of your situation. But an all-in bet to call on a draw with your tournament life at stake? No calc needed. Definite NO.

Even if you read him as a total bluffing idiot. Still NO. Live to play on.
 
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Superdad6

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I'm new here guys but for my money in this situation you raise all in not call all in. Fold and live to see another day.
 
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Freakakanus

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MrSticker said:
Yeah, what he said.

To be precise, you had 12 outs known to you (9 hearts & 3 non-heart Jacks). But in actuality, you only had 11 since he had 1 Jack. So if you use that odds card I sent you, you'll find that on the flop you had about 3-1 break-even odds twice (2 cards to come).

Tough to keep it simple, but I'll try: If he were to put out a pot-sized bet on the flop, it would be 2-1 for you to call. But with implied odds (money you think will go in on further streets), this would be worth the call. For anything more, you would have to do some serious calculating of your situation. But an all-in bet to call on a draw with your tournament life at stake? No calc needed. Definite NO.

Even if you read him as a total bluffing idiot. Still NO. Live to play on.
Thanks, I see that on the chart you gave me. I need to learn to count my outs quicker and translate that to the chart. I guess it looked like there was a better chance to hit ( in my flawed head ) than there actually was. I appreciate all the help, I didn't think I'd get any "yes" answers to my question. I wasn't really at a point where I had to make a move but knew it would come up soon when I did have to make a move. I thought this might be the right move at the right time to really give me a shot at the win but I can see that it was actually a longer shot than I thought.
 
Beriac

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I've made my fair share of dumb pushes and calls, but I don't think this is the type I'd have called -- not enough in the pot to give me the odds I like. Pre-flop looks fine, but that's the kind of hand I'm usually happy to lay down.
 
Four Dogs

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Going by the numbers, this was basically a wash. You must assume that your opponent is protecting his hand with at least top pair. If this is true, then you must fill your gutshot straight flush draw to win. In this case, you had 12 outs and were the 43% to 57% underdog which means you needed at least 1.33:1 pot odds to call; you were in fact getting only 1.2:1. In an All-In situation where you have zero implied odds of extracting another bet this is a bad call. An exception would be if you were very short stacked and needed a coin flip to get back in the hunt.
 
xace100

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i could see why he went allin to push the flush draw away. but bcos its a freeroll and nothing at risk i would have called but in a larger stake tourney i would have layed it down 4 sure to survive.
 
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DukeDrew

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Fish said:
You can't call that flop bet. No way, no how never.
Errr. What he said. And that's coming from someone that has been called ridiculously aggressive here :) I think you have to at least assume he's hit aces, given the all in, and you've got a jack crap draw with 12 outs. Tournament life at stake with 50% (24/47) shot at hitting the winning (assumed) card(s), and you're sitting on 12.5k chips. I know, easy to Monday morning qback, but I'd fold.
 
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