What hand would you rather have?

Whiach hand would you prefer to have in this spot?

  • 66

    Votes: 16 61.5%
  • 4d5d

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 7s8s

    Votes: 10 38.5%

  • Total voters
    26
dbitel

dbitel

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Full Ring, you limp in MP, so does Button, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop comes: 2
spade.gif
3
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6
spade.gif


SB checks, BB bets 3BB, action is on you. (presume a table of unknowns)

If you want to also elaborate of the different ways you would play the 3 situations, that would possibly make a really good discussion.
 
OzExorcist

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Interesting...

I'm not going to be feeling too comfortable with 78s, hitting the straight flush is all that's going to make me happy here, and one-outers aren't things I usually rely on. I'm even less comfortable if another spade falls on the turn or river - there's just too much chance I'm playing the inferior flush here.

Which is the problem with 45d too - there's just too good a chance of someone hitting (or already having hit) the flush to feel in the least bit confortable of taking the pot down with it.

Which leaves 66 - it'd probably be my choice of the hands, as at least it's got the chance of improving over the flush.

Depending on how deep the stacks are, with 66 I might re-raise to about the size of the pot to represent a higher flush and knock a couple of the runners out. I've still got outs if I get called, and the hand can be re-evaluated on the turn.
 
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Will Sidis

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I'd take the 78. I'd call and raise big on the turn if no other spade or 2/3/6 comes.
 
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starrpats

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I would take the 66.

The 78s is nice, but if you have the 78s, you want to win without a showdown... so you would represent a higher flush than you have, anyway, and win when someone folds (or probably lose to anyone who is willing to see a showdown.. if someone reraised you, you would probably have to get away from the pot). When the turn is a blank, and they're still betting into you, you just can't play the 78s...

Therefore, I propose the 66. You can represent the flush and bet out, and if they fold, you win--and if they smooth call you, you still get to see another card, and maybe the board will pair--you win. If they reraise you, it's probably a good idea to fold.
 
KMC1828

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the 66 has the best chance of improving.

the 78 is too low for a flush to be confident.

45 is an ok hand here but i would be extremely cautious.

i'd go with 66, and i'd bet about 5x BB, see where i stand against a possible flush.
 
Bombjack

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Umm... 78s because it beats more hands than the other two?

Saying that 66 has most outs to improve is just repeating the "argument" that that people joke about when someone gets it all in on the flop with TPTK vs and overpair: "I had 5 outs when we got the money in, you only had 2. So I was favourite."
 
Stick66

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In a limped pot like that, I think it is too likely that there are higher spades out there that could beat 78s.

I'd take top set 66 with the chance to improve to a boat or quads. (45d is way too risky to play here, IMHO.)
 
Bombjack

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Good logic. Higher flushes have zero outs to improve, and 66 has seven. ARRRRR-INNN!
 
OzExorcist

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Saying that 66 has most outs to improve is just repeating the "argument" that that people joke about when someone gets it all in on the flop with TPTK vs and overpair: "I had 5 outs when we got the money in, you only had 2. So I was favourite."

It's not that 66 has more outs over the flush (it's got less than the flush draw, and the made flush doesn't need any), it's just that it has outs if the re-raise on the flop doesn't work.

If I raise that flop and get a call (or worse, a re-raise), I'm probably getting out of the hand, outs or not, unless I've got a really good read that the opponent is still drawing. I don't want to play catchup on the turn and the river with just a set against a made flush. Against a flush draw though, I'm reasonably happy
 
Eour

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I would not feel good about the 7,8 so I would take 6 6. At least you could play it and not worry that soimeone has a higher flush. Someone may have the flush but you have a chance at a full boat.
 
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People are assuming other flushes are out there, why?

Its true that we cant beat any other flush, since 54s will have straight flush, so technically 87s and 66, on flop, beat the same hands (unless someone turns a higher set on turn or river).

However if u take 66 and someone else has the 87s, youre a 35% dog.

Gimme the flush, im not paranoid about higher flushes :D
 
winneronline

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I would not be willing to put all my money in with none of the above hands. I really do not like the straight. I m between the made flush and the set. Given my first thought of not putting all my money in the pot easily, I ll probably take the 66. The only reason for this is that if i hit my full house, I ll probably stack the nut flush. If another spade hits the board or someone seems willing to put all his money in without my set having turned to full house, I can easily release my hand.
 
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starrpats

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People are assuming other flushes are out there, why?

Its true that we cant beat any other flush, since 54s will have straight flush, so technically 87s and 66, on flop, beat the same hands (unless someone turns a higher set on turn or river).

However if u take 66 and someone else has the 87s, youre a 35% dog.

Gimme the flush, im not paranoid about higher flushes :D


So what happens now? Somebody want to simulate each hand 100,000 times in this situation? :p
 
robwhufc

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66, easy.

66 and 78s are equal in value here. Both are above any straight, 2 pair, or low set. Both are below any made flush. If opponent hasn't got flush, both hands winners, if he has then only the 66 gives you outs to improve.
 
Egon Towst

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66, easy.

66 and 78s are equal in value here. Both are above any straight, 2 pair, or low set. Both are below any made flush. If opponent hasn't got flush, both hands winners, if he has then only the 66 gives you outs to improve.

This.

Also the 66 gives you the possibility that, if you improve, you`re going to win a huge pot from anyone who has a high flush. OP doesn`t specify stack sizes, but in any kind of deepstack game that situation (where you are holding a monster and an opponent also has a great hand which is second best) makes your day.
 
F Paulsson

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If I may chime in... The primary reason, in my opinion, that 66 has a higher expected value than 87s, is that I have a much better chance of extracting money with that hand. Someone with an overpair may give me action if no more spades come off, but would only fold worse hands if one did show up. And if I find a full house vs. the nut flush, I'm stacking someone.

What hands would 87s stack? I can't think of many, besides maybe sets or 54. It's true that 87s is the best hand, in terms of hand rankings, but it does not have the highest expected value in this situation. And even if it's not going to happen too often that I'll find myself with a boat vs. the ace-high flush, the times that I do will contribute greatly to my overall EV.

/FP

Edit: Dammit, Egon!
 
robwhufc

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66, easy.

66 and 78s are equal in value here. Both are above any straight, 2 pair, or low set. Both are below any made flush. If opponent hasn't got flush, both hands winners, if he has then only the 66 gives you outs to improve.
Oh, not above any straight :eek: , but still 66 for me.
 
dbitel

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sorry, stack sizes are 100BBs for every one
 
blankoblanco

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I agree with 66 for the reasons rob, ET, and FP stated
 
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Will Sidis

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Actually, I'll take the 45: it's easier to get away from.
 
Dorkus Malorkus

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Actually, I'll take the 45: it's easier to get away from.

I'd definitely like to have 74o above any other hand here because it would be really easy to get away from.

Umm... 78s because it beats more hands than the other two?

Saying that 66 has most outs to improve is just repeating the "argument" that that people joke about when someone gets it all in on the flop with TPTK vs and overpair: "I had 5 outs when we got the money in, you only had 2. So I was favourite."

Good logic. Higher flushes have zero outs to improve, and 66 has seven. ARRRRR-INNN!

I <3 it when people make condescending posts that are wrong. ;)

66, easy.

66 and 78s are equal in value here. Both are above any straight, 2 pair, or low set. Both are below any made flush. If opponent hasn't got flush, both hands winners, if he has then only the 66 gives you outs to improve.

Not entirely true - if we have 66 as opposed to 87s then we need to add some hands that beat us to villain's range (namely 8sXs and 7sXs hands), plus 54 which you mentioned afterwards. You're right in stating the two hands aren't incredibly dissimilar in value though.
 
Last edited:
Bombjack

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I <3 it when people make condescending posts that are wrong.
wink.gif
This is quite funny because this statement is itself both condescending, and in its implication that I'm objectively wrong, wrong.

OK 66 has more outs to a stronger hand, but with top set you're also going to be paying off another player holding 87s either to chase, or for value if you think your hand is good. What are you going to do, try to check it down as cheaply as possible? Many players will go crazy with top set on a board like this, reasoning that their hand is probably good and they have to price out draws, and if they're beat, they have outs - but end up getting their money in bad.

On the other hand, if another player is just on a spade draw, in order to win a big pot, the board is going to have to pair AND bring another spade. Both obviously can't happen on the Turn, and on the river it's a 45:1 shot.

Plus, holding 87s, you're in better shape versus a higher flush draw, because you have blockers which you don't with 66.
 
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