Originally Posted by Thinker_145
So why even play a hand like 77 to begin with if we are to be so negative? If we give so much credit to our opponent that he won't pay us off with a worse hand then as I said why even play such hands? 77 will almost always be crushed by something in the Villain's range.
I guess to some aspect of 'why play 77' maybe I should have mentioned "raising pre vs. a person who can play a wide range might give you position and strength to control the hand post flop".
I felt it was a question about post flop scenario's, so I did not question his range for getting involved with a hand. Four braodway cards on the street does create a very unique situation when it is the low card our commentator made a hand with. the kings pairing the turn seems too good to be true at first then the river seems to prove nothing in life is free.
Personally, if your asking, "would I call with a hand like 77 pre vs. a strong player who had already committed to the pot". Most of the time that answer is "no". I would want something that could bite harder and be played faster than middle of the road marginal hands. I would want something more like AA, KK, AKs or the far swing to the other side of the deck like 4-5s 5-6s 6-7s. I would rather get involved with 12 hands vs. the village idiot than to get involved with the table captain for a hand that equaled the same chip value as all of the other combined. Again. I thought it was more of a post turn post river discussion and I chose not to condemn him for a hand I can't honestly say I would 'always' fold pre in that spot.
Great point to bring to the discussion though! "why play a hand you are always facing tough choices with?" pocket 7's QJ always seem to bring out the 'edge of your seat moments'. I do still believe you have to credit him with something big enough he may play back at you with. So a raise when you are ready to showdown is slapping the bee's nest a bit in my opinion especially when the raiser hands it to you to slap by checking the river after two barrels on a board people aren't normally bluffing
with two barrels. unless the stone cold nuts are near by. For all we know he had KK with the intention of 4b shoving pre and it went horrible wrong pre and got back on track with the turn. I can remember many hands where I got cute, got in trouble then the deck saved me.