Unlucky or bad call?

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Explosive808

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I have a question on a hand i just played in micro stakes 5 max .Sb=5cent bb=10cent

So hand starts with me looking down at pocket kings in the small blind.It goes limp , limp , limp to me(mirco stakes ikr ).I raise to 60cent(bbx3 and then +1bb for every limper).Bb folds.Utg folds.Mp folds.Button decides to jam all in for $7.90.Pot at the moment is $8.90.Pretty sure my equity is enough to call here considering his loose range?He had been 3betting with hands like suited connectors and even ace-rags.

Anyway so after i call and we turn over our hands he shows Pocket aces...i dont end up cracking em.Is there a way i could have played this hand better?Surely i should'nt have folded?
 
Lorpugo

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Nothing to do here just a cooler move on
 
puzzlefish

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Even if villain didn't turn over aces, your kings could also have been cracked by whatever cards he was holding. If your style is to call all-ins pre-flop with KK+ this is going to happen at least once in a while.
 
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Queenlimp

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That was a tough one.
I don't think you played it bad at all.
You can go half the year without this match up happening.
Strangely enough, I've see multiple times this type of hand occur, and within 15 minutes, the exact inverse happens with the same two players.
 
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Jai_R

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Nope nothing you can there unfortunately. As someone stated, it will happen regardless.
 
Bluffzone68

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Hi
It's just bad luck you got there.
You couldn't have folded that anyway
So forget and move on better luck next time
 
muse713

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Nothing you could have done, especially since the villain was 3 betting with ace rags and suited connectors.
 
TheBandit

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Even if villain didn't turn over aces, your kings could also have been cracked by whatever cards he was holding. If your style is to call all-ins pre-flop with KK+ this is going to happen at least once in a while.
happened tonight with 9 people left I pushed with AA and 89 called and cracked em. it happens
 
eetenor

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That was a tough one.
I don't think you played it bad at all.
You can go half the year without this match up happening.
Strangely enough, I've see multiple times this type of hand occur, and within 15 minutes, the exact inverse happens with the same two players.


This is a joke sort of

Can I live in your dimension where this happens so infrequently. I could finally buy that mansion I have always wanted.
:D:D:D:D
 
eetenor

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Jam range?

I have a question on a hand i just played in micro stakes 5 max .Sb=5cent bb=10cent

So hand starts with me looking down at pocket kings in the small blind.It goes limp , limp , limp to me(mirco stakes ikr ).I raise to 60cent(bbx3 and then +1bb for every limper).Bb folds.Utg folds.Mp folds.Button decides to jam all in for $7.90.Pot at the moment is $8.90.Pretty sure my equity is enough to call here considering his loose range?He had been 3betting with hands like suited connectors and even ace-rags.

Anyway so after i call and we turn over our hands he shows Pocket aces...i dont end up cracking em.Is there a way i could have played this hand better?Surely i should'nt have folded?


Thanks for posting.

Have you seen a similar action taken by anyone in your player pool with a hand that was not AA?
Has villain specifically been 3 bet shoving? Or are the 3 bets a different sizing?
Have you been raising light?
Did villain just lose massive pot?
Why would villain think you would fold after you raised so many limpers?
Were other players in your player pool calling shoves light?
Are you regularly calling shoves or big value bets?

What were the hand dynamics in regard to the light 3 bets?
Was he isolating some players? What was the ratio of 3 bet hands made to 3 bet hands shown down?

Just some thoughts that help generate data for refining ranges in nonstandard spots.

Hope this helps.

:):)
 
greatgame230

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Classic hand KK against AA nothing to do just bad luck, was well played in the pre-flop for you and then the call was obvious.
better luck next time
 
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You played it fine. You've got to think of things from a long term perspective. If you called every time you held KK preflop and are 4bet all-in, even assuming a tight player who would not show that kind of action with less than AKs or QQ then you are still only facing 6 of 20 possible hands within that players preflop 4bet all in range or just over 1/4 of the time if you made this call 100% of the time you would end up seeing a tidy +EV on this call. It's not like most things in life where you can be results oriented and effectively refine your strategy. In poker, you can play perfect and end up bust, and on the flipside, you can play very poorly and end your session a big winner. It's hard to wrap your mind around at first but it really is better to lose a big hand playing it correctly than it is to win a big hand after playing poorly, not because of the result of THAT particular hand... but because of the net result of all the situations where you take that action. After 10,000 or so instances you might start to get an accurate idea of what kind of value your getting. The numbers don't lie over time. They can be very deceptive if your looking at the short term or any single incident. Don't sweat it when you get a bad beat...review your hand history and think about what could have happened differently...be objective and open to the idea that your play might benefit from some critical scrutiny.
 
Maikl113

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Such situations are almost every player and nowhere to get away from them. To say it is wrong to play the hand is also incorrect. We just need to move on, as we wrote earlier. This will happen again and again.
 
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Explosive808

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Thanks for posting.

Have you seen a similar action taken by anyone in your player pool with a hand that was not AA?
Has villain specifically been 3 bet shoving? Or are the 3 bets a different sizing?
Have you been raising light?
Did villain just lose massive pot?
Why would villain think you would fold after you raised so many limpers?
Were other players in your player pool calling shoves light?
Are you regularly calling shoves or big value bets?

What were the hand dynamics in regard to the light 3 bets?
Was he isolating some players? What was the ratio of 3 bet hands made to 3 bet hands shown down?

Just some thoughts that help generate data for refining ranges in nonstandard spots.

Hope this helps.

:):)

Thanks for the reply.

Well in general i see 2 type of players , NITS and Maniacs that think they are play a viable LAG style.Earlier on there was a hand where one of the more tight players 4 bet me when i had AQo so i folded.

The villain in question did get into a big pot earlier where he had 9To against one of the NITS.Villain 3 bet pre flop and ended up taking the pot by triple barreling and showing on the river.

Would'nt say he shoved everytime but i did see it twice before the hand in question.

In general my raising is 3xbb and +1bb for every limper.I do resort to a higher amount if the limpers keep calling with marginal hands.

I'd say the villain was polarized with his bet sizing.Odd sizes pre and post flop.

This hand was 3 hands after he got the bluff mentioned in my 2nd paragraph.

Well that table i did play more of a LAG style as there were many passive players wich worked for me.My thought was that he was either holding a very strong hand or thought he could bluff me off it if i have a marginal hand like suited conectors or AQ,AJ ?

Some fish just cant let go of their blinds until a raise comes in.Some just in general hardly ever fold even to bigger sizing.In wich case i look to punish them with my premium hands.

Anyway after some thought , ive come to the conclusion that against a player such as the villain mentioned above im always calling a shove with Kings.With his range being so wide i profit enough of the times to be calling.If I get coolered thats life , folding against said villain will in the long run cost me money.

Thanks for the help :)
 
Erpherk

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Sometimes it's not meant for you to win, coolers go both ways and this is 1 of the times you are on the bad end of it, You played it fine in my book but poker is variance and we experience it from time to time. Gl in the next 1.
 
eetenor

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Great analysis.

Thanks for the reply.

Well in general i see 2 type of players , NITS and Maniacs that think they are play a viable LAG style.Earlier on there was a hand where one of the more tight players 4 bet me when i had AQo so i folded.

The villain in question did get into a big pot earlier where he had 9To against one of the NITS.Villain 3 bet pre flop and ended up taking the pot by triple barreling and showing on the river.

Would'nt say he shoved everytime but i did see it twice before the hand in question.

In general my raising is 3xbb and +1bb for every limper.I do resort to a higher amount if the limpers keep calling with marginal hands.

I'd say the villain was polarized with his bet sizing.Odd sizes pre and post flop.

This hand was 3 hands after he got the bluff mentioned in my 2nd paragraph.

Well that table i did play more of a LAG style as there were many passive players wich worked for me.My thought was that he was either holding a very strong hand or thought he could bluff me off it if i have a marginal hand like suited conectors or AQ,AJ ?

Some fish just cant let go of their blinds until a raise comes in.Some just in general hardly ever fold even to bigger sizing.In wich case i look to punish them with my premium hands.

Anyway after some thought , ive come to the conclusion that against a player such as the villain mentioned above im always calling a shove with Kings.With his range being so wide i profit enough of the times to be calling.If I get coolered thats life , folding against said villain will in the long run cost me money.

Thanks for the help :)


Thanks for responding.

All we can ever do is gather all the data we can about the villain. Then make a decision on a range of hands villain might make this play with. As you did.

One more data point. I am always careful when a villain has recently shown a bluff and then limp reraise shoves for that size. It is so polarized a play and the bluff is still fresh in everybody's mind the villain must know if you have a hand, the odds are high you will call. Your bet and your position suggest you have a hand.

The villain showing exactly AA suggests that to be true. So be aware this villain seems to be adapting their play. Which suggests from this hand and the 3 bet hand ranges you described earlier, you may have a LAG that is in the getting better stage.

It may be coincidence but the LAG used 109 to bluff a nit and is 3 betting Ax wheels so this player may have read Ed Miller's book Moving Beyond ABC poker.

Hope this helps.

:):)
 
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Explosive808

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Thanks for responding.

All we can ever do is gather all the data we can about the villain. Then make a decision on a range of hands villain might make this play with. As you did.

One more data point. I am always careful when a villain has recently shown a bluff and then limp reraise shoves for that size. It is so polarized a play and the bluff is still fresh in everybody's mind the villain must know if you have a hand, the odds are high you will call. Your bet and your position suggest you have a hand.

The villain showing exactly AA suggests that to be true. So be aware this villain seems to be adapting their play. Which suggests from this hand and the 3 bet hand ranges you described earlier, you may have a LAG that is in the getting better stage.

It may be coincidence but the LAG used 109 to bluff a nit and is 3 betting Ax wheels so this player may have read Ed Miller's book Moving Beyond ABC poker.

Hope this helps.

:):)

I was kinda thinking the same afterwards.He knew i wouldnt be raising that much out of position with a marginal hand , in return he also knew i would'nt be folding.I have seen some pretty good LAG players in the micros(I'm assuming they are practicing).

Taking this into consideration his all in jam range when i raise in the SB , should only include overpairs and AK suited ?

Thanks for the help , my post flop play has always been decent... working on my pre flop now 🙂
 
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it alwys seem whenever i get kings, someone else has KK. theres two ways this could have went down, just limp call or do what you did either way there's no way you could have gotten him away from aces. you could have sensed he had aces and folded the jam but it's hard to get away or rep a flush if it hit the board but i don't think other than folding the jam pre flop you could have done anything different.
 
dragunovich

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that was a unlucky history.. when u have kk u can't put in ur mind that the rivals maybe have aces.. u need to push with action in the field.. relax, that was a episode that u don't see too often
 
NCDaddy

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Simply unlucky. Given his "lose range" and constant 3 bets....I'm calling off with the KK. I do see the limp/shove move in micro with Aces frequently, however. If it were a tight player doing that...I may consider (consider...probably wouldn't) folding?!? But, that's unlikely. Reload and move on.
 
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This is a joke sort of

Can I live in your dimension where this happens so infrequently. I could finally buy that mansion I have always wanted.
:D:D:D:D



Joke?
I play all the time. Sometimes over ten tourneys a day or 7 hours a day.
It's happened to me about 5 times in the last 7 months and not once in the last 3. More improbable things have occurred in that time span.


Sorry to hear that this happens to you so often you could of bought a mansion, considering getting kings pre-flop happens .4% of the time.
 
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Hey! This is just an unfortunate run out for you. Most of the times you will have a better hand in this spot, just happen to run into aces sometimes.

For future reference there's also these sub-forums for hand analysis:
Cashgame discussion: https://www.cardschat.com/forum/cash-games-11/ hand analysis: https://www.cardschat.com/forum/cash-game-hand-analysis-50/
Tournament discussion: https://www.cardschat.com/forum/tournament-poker-59/ tournament hand analysis: https://www.cardschat.com/forum/tournament-hand-analysis-51/
 
makisaa

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You could be more suspicious when he went all in. I would go all in most of the times! Sometimes it works, sometimes no. No problem, next session!
 
djasset

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if someone is shoving... pocket kings is probably a flip.... if you don't want to gamble, then fold
 
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If I have notes on the villain that he limp raises AA only, I might find a fold there. In the situation you encountered it is just a call and a fistpump until he shows his hand. Even fish get aces.:)
 
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