can u lay down str fl draw?

pfb8888

pfb8888

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the toughest draw for me is an open ended straight flush draw. just had one that i laid down after a big bet on the turn. i was fortunate there was another caller so i got to see my str fl draw not pan out....

anyone else get sucked into the lure of making a straight or royal flush and try to talk themselves into calling without proper pot odds?
 
THe Slob

THe Slob

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A call or fold depends on your pot odds, your implied odds and your opponent(s), IMO. I hate to say "it depends"..but it does. You've got nine outs to the flush, two of these to the absolute nuts, and 6 outs to the straight.

You're about 19% on the turn to win this against 2 other players with one having AA and the other AK of your suit. That jumps to more than 30% if both have an over pair, and just a little less if one player has a set and the other an over pair. If I think I can stack one of the players if I hit, I'll call a pretty good-sized raise.

Tell us what the "big bet" was for this hand, so we can make a more informed reply.
 
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GrantGreen

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If I flop it, then I'm betting, raising, and reraising. A good rule of thumb that I use is if I have 12 or more outs to what will most likely be the best hand, then I'm happy to get it all in on the flop. Problem then comes if you see a turn that doesn't help you. Your equity has dropped markedly, and with one card to come, you often have to give up if someone bets big.

However, if you still think your 15 outs are golden, then you're a 2:1 dog with one card to come. So if there's enough left behind after calling that big bet (ie implied odds), then a call might still be the right play.
 
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AcesLA07

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Wassicka laid down an open ended straight flush draw in the 2006 wsop after Gold pushed and another player was in the pot. Gold turned his open ended straight but Wassicka would have rivered his flush.
 
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JayDerris

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If the raise outdoes the odds, then yes, I'd lay it down. But the raise would have to be big, because there are tons of outs.
 
BelgoSuisse

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the toughest draw for me is an open ended straight flush draw. just had one that i laid down after a big bet on the turn. i was fortunate there was another caller so i got to see my str fl draw not pan out....

anyone else get sucked into the lure of making a straight or royal flush and try to talk themselves into calling without proper pot odds?

Unless villain overbets the pot, you should have odds to draw to an oes flush draw.

The thing is, a lot of the time, with very strong draws, you don't want to call , but instead play über aggressive. That way you combine fold equity and your drawing odds for additional EV.

If you posted the hand history, we could make more relevant comments.
 
pfb8888

pfb8888

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my point was..

i did not have odds to make the call .. there was an all in after the turn ...

my point simply was i wanted a straight flush...thats why people lose....they dont fold their str fl draw... or their set to a four fl board or 4 str board.
 
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bw07507

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You should be jamming the pot on the flop with an open ended straight flush draw like always.
 
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ttwarrior1

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if its an all in and i need a card for a royal or straight flush, i will fold and just wait. If its a low bet, of course call. Sometimes the other player might be on a draw too. If it was half my chips i would probaly call, but not more than that
 
PopeNegro

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ship it in on the flop and fist pump

what he said, your 58% against two opponents on the flop if neither has a higher flush draw(which is highly likely) and 34% on the turn making a call/raise massively +EV. In a tournament it would be different(as your chips are more valuable than the chips you would win unless you have them both heavily covered), but in a ring game ship it superfast.
 
The Shrog

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All inskees all the time. As everyone else is replying, unless your opponent overbets the pot, your stack should be in the middle.
 
ugotkicked

ugotkicked

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I have fold pretty much any "DRAW" if it were all my chips.
esp. if im holding 23 and I need a gutterball. for a str8 flush.I can't see my money in there w/ 3 high.
 
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marcel_15

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It always depends how many players are in the hand and if you have two overcards or not. Because if you do and the opponent has but a pair you're ahead actually which answers the question. It always depends on the situation which I think you didn't explain clear enough.
 
RickH2005

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Strt flush draw??

All I hear is 'depends-depends-depends'! Yer question was--'Can U lay down a straight flush draw', right? Well, it DEPENDS on position, how much, etc, etc, etc! BUT to answer yer question---NO!--I gotta give it a shot, win or loose, I GOTTA SEE!:D And YUP!:p Sure do loose alotta hands that way--But I GOTTA SEE! I GOTTA TRY!:eek: And IF it hits--HOW SWEET IT IS!:D
 
Lopos

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This is how my straight flush draws pan out.

Hold'em No Limit - Level II (15/30) - 2008/04/22 - 06:42:31 (ET)
Table '85675079 1' 9-max Seat #7 is the button
Philone01: posts small blind 15
Afvoerputje: posts big blind 30
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Philone01 [Jd 9d]
Maniaky: folds
farmergav: calls 30
Rhaumces: folds
flamingoroad: calls 30
ippel-dippel: folds
Philone01: calls 15
Afvoerputje: checks
*** FLOP *** [4c Ac 8d]
Philone01: checks
Afvoerputje: checks
farmergav: checks
flamingoroad: checks
*** TURN *** [4c Ac 8d] [Td]
Philone01: checks
Afvoerputje: checks
farmergav: checks
flamingoroad: checks
*** RIVER *** [4c Ac 8d Td] 7♦
Philone01: bets 330
Afvoerputje: folds
farmergav: folds
flamingoroad: folds
Philone01 collected 120 from pot
Philone01: shows [Jd 9d] (a straight flush, Seven to Jack)
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 120 | Rake 0
Board [4c Ac 8d Td 7d]
Seat 8: Philone01 (small blind) collected (120)
 
widowmaker89

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I fold a open ended straight flush if someone pushes for more than the pot on the turn with no other players in the pot or if there is a paired board and a big bet at me. Once full house, or FH draws which at least take out some outs, hands are in villians range im getting much less equity. Im still playing hard if possible but an all in on the turn on a paried board around pot im letting it go.
 
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StevenMick12

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straight flush draw is hard to call because the odds arent in your favor

but on the other hand if you hit more than likely your gonna win that hand
 
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Razor_King

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No way would i ever call in the hope of hitting a str8 or royal flush. The odds are so against you and calling to hit one of the top 2 hands is asking to lose your money. My advice would be if it was open ended and cheap to get in call because you could hit the straight anyway without the straight flush but when its expensive get out the hand and don't fish for it. ;)

RK
 
Cowboy8112

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Oh yes, I have on many occasions. Anyone that doesnt get caught up in the excitment of that should really consider taking some time off from poker.
I have never hit a royal flush except in Omaha but I have had many straight flushes and let me tell you. Hitting it is one of the greatest feelings in poker.
It helped that I hit my last straight flush Q high spades against the AK spades ;-)
 
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CfPoker

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I have fold pretty much any "DRAW" if it were all my chips.
esp. if im holding 23 and I need a gutterball. for a str8 flush.I can't see my money in there w/ 3 high.

I hear a lot of people say this sort of thing, they "don't want to go all in on a draw". You go all in based on your equity in a pot and the pot odds.

Take this scenario. You have A2diamonds. Blinds are 50/100. You are in the big blind with a stack of 600. 4 limpers preflop, and you check, leaving you 500 behind and a pot of 500.

Flop: 3d 6d Ts

SB check. You check. Next player bets 500. The player after raises to 1000. The SB calls. Action is now on you to call your remaining 500 to win a pot of 2000 (you can only win 500 from the two 1000 bets). Do you call? Yes! You're getting 4 to 1 and are about 3 to 1 to hit your flush, making this an easy case of going all in on a draw.
 
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