Tricky 10-9 hand

General comments on this hand?

Seat 1: flashylightsmeow - $45
Seat 2: Joneasy - $49 (away from table)
Seat 3: dommy2 - $68.25
Seat 4: Bumbarashka - $8.68
Seat 5: Bombjack - $118.07
Seat 6: 1CEMAN - $20.67
Moving Button to seat 3
Bumbarashka posts small blind ($0.25)
Bombjack posts big blind ($0.50)
Shuffling Deck
Dealing Cards
Dealing [ ] to Bombjack
1CEMAN folds
flashylightsmeow calls $0.50
dommy2 raises to $2.50
Bumbarashka calls $2.50
Bombjack calls $2.50
flashylightsmeow calls $2.50
Dealing Flop [ ]
Bumbarashka checks
Bombjack checks
flashylightsmeow checks
dommy2 bets $4
Bumbarashka folds
Bombjack calls $4
Small bet into $10 pot... he might have AK AJ etc, 3.5:1 on call
flashylightsmeow folds
Dealing Turn []
Bombjack checks
dommy2 bets $10
Bombjack raises to $30
Do you agree with the check-raise here?
dommy2 calls $30
Dealing River []
Bombjack...

fold flop

I would fold flop you are not getting good enough odds to call, you have to avoid a 9 of spades and ten of spades so that takes away 2 of your outs so you are drawing to 3 outs?!?!?

on river I would check/fold, 1 card straight out plus flush.

Why do you assume my opponent has 2 spades? Seems highly unlikely.

How can I not have odds to call if I'm ahead?

well

Bombjack said:

Why do you assume my opponent has 2 spades? Seems highly unlikely.

How can I not have odds to call if I'm ahead?

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why are you trying to outplay someone with Td9d, you have to discount your outs by how the board is. This is a hand I would fold or raise the flop, if you think you are ahead here why are you just calling?


you cant just call this because your odds are not clean outs, by just calling the flop what information are you gaining?\


as for what to do on river, what hand is going to bet river that dosent have you beat? 2 pair - no way, TP - no way, you can not value bet this so all i can see do is check and evaluate after his bet.

I'm not trying to outplay him, I genuinely think there's more than an 1 in 4.5 chance I'm ahead on this flop. I don't have to believe I'm ahead (i.e. 50%+), I just have to think there's a reasonable chance I'm ahead to call, as dictated by the odds the pot's giving me.

I'd rather just call and take a free card which might help me than raise and play a huge pot with what might not be the best hand. I'll gain information on the next street anyway.

Bombjack said:

I'm not trying to outplay him, I genuinely think there's more than an 1 in 4.5 chance I'm ahead on this flop. I don't have to believe I'm ahead (i.e. 50%+), I just have to think there's a reasonable chance I'm ahead to call, as dictated by the odds the pot's giving me.

I'd rather just call and take a free card which might help me than raise and play a huge pot with what might not be the best hand. I'll gain information on the next street anyway.

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the problem is that your out might give him the best hand and you dont know that. When you check raise there is a chance that it made him the straight and he is just calling you to trap you.

If you bet on the flop you get a better idea where you stand. I could see someone underbetting with the open ended on the flop.


other then the flop I dont mind anything else you did during hand.


remember though I play very very aggressive, they may not be your style but I think calling with 2nd pair with flush draw and straight draw out is really weak.

stormswa said:

I would fold flop you are not getting good enough odds to call, you have to avoid a 9 of spades and ten of spades so that takes away 2 of your outs so you are drawing to 3 outs?!?!?

on river I would check/fold, 1 card straight out plus flush.

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Why avoid 9 or 10 spades? the spades may give villian a flush but it gives Bombjack the boat.so thats 5 outs.

So, do we get to find out what happend

????

shinedown.45 said:

Why avoid 9 or 10 spades? the spades may give villian a flush but it gives Bombjack the boat.so thats 5 outs.

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huh???? on the flop he has a pair not 2 pair so how in the world would a T or 9 give bombjack a full house.

I always play consecutive cards if I can see a flop cheaply. However, I have learnt to avoid getting too deeply drawn into hands like this where after the flop you could be facing a straight or a flush draw. I can't find a fault with what you did except the betting for the Turn. His bets indicate that he has something, I would not be raising him here. IMHO, he is unlikely to fold (from the bets he has made) and your hand is not particularly strong).

I hope the 10s came!!!

TheRifle said:

I can't find a fault with what you did except the betting for the Turn. His bets indicate that he has something, I would not be raising him here. IMHO, he is unlikely to fold (from the bets he has made) and your hand is not particularly strong).

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What do you put him on that beats me, Queen-Ten?

what has you crushed well q10 k j or spd or trips. i cant get too involved with this hand id rather win a small pot thn risk the loss of a big 1

I like how you played this hand. That is one ugly river. I probably check and puke if he pushes, but i'm a station so I probably call. If Villian is good he knows that you're almost never checking a straight here, and he might push anything here. Do you think check-folding to a good size bet is too weak here? I mean, you're basically throwing up the white flag here after checkraisng turn and then checking river on the ugly scare card, i know if i'm villian in this hand i'm most likely shoving. reads help here, any at all? whats your image like? Another option to consider is a blocking bet of $18 would be ok? I don't think he ever raises you on this river with a hand you beat so you have to be able to fold it geting sick odds. 50 NL players aren't bluff raising without the goods often if EVER.

My opponent has about 32 behind on the river, so a small bet leaves me pot-committed.

I'm not sure a flush draw or a straight draw (e.g. JJ) calls the check-raise on the turn, with limited implied odds for him. KJ pushes the turn, so I'm not too worried about drawing hands from him.

So the river card is scarier for him than me, and I pushed... (I seem to be doing a lot of this recently).

He said "oh no" and called, showing...

ok

I don't mind the preflop call at all I would personally like being the one betting but I don't mind the call at all. BUT the big thing here is you are looking to flop BIG or get away from it, you didn't flop big so get away from it. I don't care what the final results are from the hand, I don't care if you won or lost the hand. If you won or lost shouldn't matter, I actually don't even think posting results is needed, the play before the showdown is what matters.


I don't mind the pre-flop, hate the flop, im so so on the turn and with only $30 in his stack I think you are going to have to check/call or just push.

I said it before but on flop I think you have to bet or fold, no calling.

wow

DJUCKET said:

Ofcourse Stormswa, you want to hit big with suited connectors, you wont get the odds of calling when it's a 2.50 raise, it's 5x BB raise. it's not a regular raise, it probably indicates QQ or higher. Might be AKs and if thats the case your flush wont help you. The preflop call is bad IMO.

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I hope its QQ because suited connectors have the best odds against overpair which Is why I would call this. Plus your getting 2-1 on your call im not calling this every time but once in awhile I will call and mix it up. BUT im also strong enough to lay it down if I just catch a piece of it.


you are assuming alot though 5x is not a big raise at all really in games I play 5x is actually a normal raise. His call was fine preflop. I just thought about it, its simple make the call if you dont flop monster fold....ABC poker. what is normal raise in games you play 3x, man you raise under 5x in my game you would have tons to the flop and have no clue where you were in hand.

It's normal to raise more when there are already limpers in the pot, so that you're not offering better pot odds than normal to people left to act.

Players who fold instantly to a small bet on the flop by the raiser are very, very easy to play against. He plays AK exactly this way... why should I throw my Tens away?

If he has an overpair and I call, I'm making a $4 mistake. If he doesn't and I fold, I'm making a $14 mistake, which is over 3 times worse than calling when he does have it.

nah

I dont think he has AK, I would still raise the flop to take control of the hand and figure out how ahead or behind I'am.

Pot and stack sizes are needed for what to do next, and there's no way I'm summing that up myself. Use a converter, slacker!

Well, I don't think there are any converters that work with PKR hands, but pot on the river is $78, and dommy2 has $31.75 left. I have him covered.

Well i guess you could check, Then he might check if he didnt hit straight or set but he has a lot of money in there so hed probably shove with only a pair here too.

I dont think id fold to his shove so i guess i just go ahead and bet him allin... or check call. Which is better?

I think betting him allin probably.

Bombjack said:

Well, I don't think there are any converters that work with PKR hands, but pot on the river is $78, and dommy2 has $31.75 left. I have him covered.

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Well, then folding is mostly out of the question unless you know something about this player that I don't, that tells you that you're not ahead here 30% of the time. Some of the hands you're ahead of won't call a push on this river anyway. And you have no fold equity at least, that much is for sure.

I dunno. It's probably KQ or AQ often enough. Other than open-folding, almost anything you do here is probably the same EV.

I would have folded on the flop. Sure you have midpair and he bet weak, but he DID bet into a 4way pot, you are OOP for the whole hand, and you have horrible reverse implied odds. As for whoever said to C/R to "find out where you are" ....LOLOLOLOLOL!!!!

The turn C/R is fine, although, I might just C/R all in here. I think you made it too small, giving him OK odds and making a lot of rivers quite tricky.

As for the river, you have 2 choices. You can either go all in and pray the he calls you with a worse hand, or you can just check/fold. Check/calling this river is very bad here. Although you will be getting great odds, he's not going to be value bettig a worse hand, ie AA always checks behind on the river and I doubt very highly he's going to be bluffing when its just a half pot bet

hmmm....

lets start from the beginning. you''re BB with suited connectors. You're OOP and you have to pay 4xBB (plus the BB you already posted) to play. I say fold here - you needed to see the flop for cheap, and this ain't cheap.

flop I think I would fold this one, but I don't see a problem calling his weak bet. IMO, this usually means he is trying to control the betting so that he sees more cards for cheap (OESD or FD).

I like the check-raise on the turn - no flush yet, and if he has a Q, he's represented a weak Q so far that he may be willing to fold.]

As for the river - seems to me that anyone who was going for a straight or flush (as his flop play suggests to me) just made their hand, so I think you need to chec/fold this one.

My best guess on his hand is J9, not spades. That hand is a (tough) call on the turn, but with a pair and OESD I can see someone doing it.
Similarly, it's tough for him to call on the river, but you haven't represented the flush, so I think this hand calls there too.