Tough spot again with KK vs unknown. Fold or call turn? Why?

M

masadad

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$0.10/$0.25 No Limit Holdem
partypoker 9 Players

http://www.pokerhandreplays.com/view.php/id/7120902

Stacks:
UTG ($70.25) 281bb
UTG+1 ($75.84) 303bb
MP1 ($7.19) 29bb
MP2 ($8.21) 33bb
MP3 Hero ($43.80) 175bb
CO ($65.55) 262bb
BTN ($65.47) 262bb
SB ($24.75) 99bb
BB ($25) 100bb

Pre-Flop: (0.35, 9 players) Hero is MP3 K:diamond: K:spade:
UTG raises to $1, UTG+1 calls $1, 2 folds, Hero raises to $3.50, CO calls $3.50, 2 folds, BB calls $3.25, UTG calls $2.50, UTG+1 calls $2.50

Flop: 10:club: Q:diamond: 5:diamond: ($17.60, 5 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero bets $5.57, 1 fold, BB folds, UTG folds, UTG+1 raises to $33.43, Hero calls $27.86

Turn: 5:spade: ($84.46, 2)
UTG+1 goes all-in $38.91, Hero goes all-in $6.87

River: J:club: ($130.24, 2), 2 all-in

Final Pot: $130.24
UTG+1 shows
J:heart: 9:diamond:
Hero shows
K:diamond: K:spade:
Hero wins $95.20 (net +$51.40)
UTG+1 collects $64.08 (net -$11.76)
CO lost $3.50
BB lost $3.50
UTG lost $3.50
 
IPlay

IPlay

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Bet 13 on flop and GII. As played you can almost find a fold considering you block straight draws and flush draws. Only hands you are beating is Axdd bluffs or a poorly played/over valued AQ. Did you have any reads on villain?Overall a pretty meh spot that would take a read/stats on wether I call or fold flop.

Oh and preflop should of been a raise to 4.20-4.65. This hand was brought to you in part by weak bet sizing.
 
IPlay

IPlay

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Oh and you arr getting 14 to 1 on turn and the 5 helps you by counterfeiting any Q10 and takes some sets out of his range. Honestly, no matter what card falls on turn you got to call
 
starting_at_the_bottom

starting_at_the_bottom

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You cant fold the turn. How can you possibly consider folding for your last $6.87 given the pot size (especially on a card that almost never helps villain, and gives you the lead against QT).

Oh yes, and your flop bet is way too small.
 
Aces2w1n

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Yeh raise more flop and effective stacks to the pot under 3 its a no brainer
 
M

masadad

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i bet 1/3 of the pot on flop because there were 4 opponents. if someone check raise/shoved that flop i was surely folding so didn't want to put a lot of money in the pot vs 4 opponent. when everyone folded back to UTG1 and UTG1 raised again i was determined to get it all in regardless of what card falls on the flop. i just called anyway only to delay the river excitement.

and my bad my question actually was whether or not to fold that insane flop raise by UTG1
 
Aces2w1n

Aces2w1n

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5 is a great card minimizing sets. and ppl with QT are going to pay us off. Qx and JJ..

looks like a great table to win big :)
 
WVHillbilly

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Zero chance I am ever folding to that flop raise. It's such a drawy board and villain's overbet paired with his actions preflop makes zero sense for any strong hand other than maybe 55. He's drawing about 100% of the time here. Personally I just stick the remainder of my stack in on the flop and let the cards run out. Not putting your last few $$s in on the flop only makes calling off the turn worse when a shitty card hits the table.
 
MrBadAss

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hey buddy, i think you arent seeing the thinks from the best side, he can raise flop with any Q, QT/KQ/AQ/QJ/JJ that wont fold if you reraise, never fold a over pair on that board, this are micros, they dont think
 
S

Sneaky Feet

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Good morning. Imo bet more pre and post flop. You had a lot of callers pre because your sizing was a bit small making your post flop decision a bit more challenging. 4-4.5 would have been better. Post flop bet 3/4 pot as villain is still behind KK. As villain played I would have thought low pair or suited connectors. The turn was a definite call with 14:1.

I do have a question though. 9 handed utg, his hand seems really loose to me. Villain didn't bet heavy pre so villain is telegraphing their hand quite a bit if we know their sizing changes. We don't know how the table was playing at the time but imo it still seems to me like they're pretty loose. I say take advantage of these guys all day long. Thoughts?
 
Figaroo2

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I'm like wtf is going on preflop here that sort of thing never happens on a pokerstars 25nl full ring table. Lol then I noticed it was partypoker...explains everything.
If people are calling loose like this then really bump it up preflop with your premium hands. Make it $5 to go we don't want too many in. 5 handed someone will hit a set more often and I think you are right to be a little cautious, id have bet a little more half pot is fine imo.
Its such a draw heavy board I call it off against all except nits, especially as we have the Kd.
 
PokerFunKid

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Very easy call. You have $6.87 behind. He can have draws, AQ or maybe even air. If he has a full house or aces, then so it be. I'm never flop or turn. i like the 3bet size pre vs a 4x open. Then easy c-bet on this flop, when he raise you that big i'm not folding on a draw heavy board unless he's a total nit and you know he would only do this with a set on the flop.
 
A

Angelo3

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You had to bet more on preflop but everything else is good. Nh
 
ribaric

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Good play. I would bet more preflop and good call on the turn!
 
H

hffjd2000

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Auto call. You are committed to the pot.

Even if you raise him on the flop, action would still be the same.
 
J

joe777

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Bet minimum 3/4 of pot on the flop.As played you should call on the turn after invested so much.
 
M

masadad

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yep. i will have to agree that i should have raised more on pre. but i think they would have still called even if i made it $5 or so. i just don't understand how these people think.
 
WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

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yep. i will have to agree that i should have raised more on pre. but i think they would have still called even if i made it $5 or so. i just don't understand how these people think.

You don't need to understand it. Just appreciate the glorious gift that you've been given.
 
John A

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I'd definitely fold turn. Sick card...
 
jordanbillie

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How is this even a discussion?!?!?!
 
M

masadad

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i can see that the world looks much easier from a lot of people's POV and beginner level hands are surely not very welcomed here.
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

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It takes some bravery to post a hand as a beginner, knowing you're probably going to get laughed at. But it'll make you better in the end. We've all been there.
 
6

6bet me

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It takes some bravery to post a hand as a beginner, knowing you're probably going to get laughed at. But it'll make you better in the end. We've all been there.

This.
I've been mocked so many times on this forum for asking beginner questions, but at the end of the day, asking those questions really helped me improve.
 
M

massagegirl

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Nice win and congrats. Lots of people play bingo poker at the lower levels. Too bad your stack was not larger at the beginner of the hand.
 
WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

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i can see that the world looks much easier from a lot of people's POV and beginner level hands are surely not very welcomed here.
It's not that it's not welcomed. It's just that it's the internet and you're not going to be coddled. This thread has gotten a ton of responses, some better than others, and you've been given plenty of advice that should improve your play. Just take it all in and try to learn from it.

It takes some bravery to post a hand as a beginner, knowing you're probably going to get laughed at. But it'll make you better in the end. We've all been there.

Agree 100%.

This.
I've been mocked so many times on this forum for asking beginner questions, but at the end of the day, asking those questions really helped me improve.

Again, it's the internet, we're all assholes here (ok, maybe it's just me).
 
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