Top pair, weak kicker, minraised pot OOP

NineLions

NineLions

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What to you do OOP with top pair, weak kicker in a minraised pot? Lead and fold to resistance? Check/fold? Lead/check the turn? Lead/Lead the turn?


Game # 626847573 - Texas Hold'em No Limit EUR 0.05/0.10 - Table "Zwaag"

Players(max 9):
FATTACCIO (EUR 4.90 in seat 1)
EL_Nino (EUR 8.42 in seat 2)
boromoro (EUR 11.45 in seat 3)
Nigel2229 (EUR 4.04 in seat 4)
Mutant (EUR 12.46 in seat 5)
qujiyan (EUR 5.17 in seat 6)
BeHeTka (EUR 14.40 in seat 7)
jahamala (EUR 3.19 in seat 8)
NineLions (EUR 32.92 in seat 9)

Dealer: jahamala
Small Blind: NineLions (0.05)
Big Blind: FATTACCIO (0.10)

ninelions was dealt: Ks - 7s

EL_Nino Fold
boromoro Fold
Nigel2229 Fold
Mutant Call (0.10)
qujiyan Fold
BeHeTka Raise (0.20)
jahamala Fold
NineLions Call (0.15)
FATTACCIO Call (0.10)
Mutant Call (0.10)

Flop Kh - 4c - 6s
 
S

Seneku

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Fold preflop, bet 3/4rds of the pot on the flop, if you get resistance, you're probably beat (because there are no draws to mention)
 
Jagsti

Jagsti

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Fold pf, check/fold flop.
 
NineLions

NineLions

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Interesting replies.

I have a habit of ignoring minraises, basically because I don't know how/why someone does this, especially with limpers already in. SB/BB may fold, but the limpers are not going to fold so at best it's some kind of value raise.
 
T

Threads13

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I pray.

Seriously, TPWK OOP is a very marginal hand. I can't really tell you what I would do without knowing all of the variables and then I will still screw it up. :)

I would tend to not play this preflop, even though it is suited, unless I had some reads that I could steal postflop if it was limped to me. So, since it was raised I wouldn't play. You are going to be OOP with a hand that you are hoping to make a draw with. These hands are no good OOP.

Now you are OOP on the flop with a RIO hand. You might as well c/f. You are so deep that you can't play this hand well.

I don't like betting as you will tend to get raised off your hand, build a big pot when you don't want one, or get people to fold correctly.

I don't like c/c as you will be on OOP the turn with TPWK and a hole in your heart.

With hands like this I like to think what reads would change my mind. What would make me want to bet out on this flop? What would make me want to c/r this flop? I think there is a lot to be learned in that school of thought.
 
NineLions

NineLions

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I would tend to not play this preflop, even though it is suited, unless I had some reads that I could steal postflop if it was limped to me. So, since it was raised I wouldn't play.

Yeah, I should force myself to pay some attention to minraises. I have to give them some credit because the people making them might actually be thinking they're making the proper play with their AK.

With hands like this I like to think what reads would change my mind. What would make me want to bet out on this flop? What would make me want to c/r this flop? I think there is a lot to be learned in that school of thought.

This is the other part that I missed in this particular hand. The table is 10 Euro max; I got my stack when I stacked 3 other players with Aces. Two of the players were playing with crap, but the one who minraised in this hand had KK so he was actually playing properly getting all his money in preflop.

I think taking one stab is fair enough. If I'm in mid/late position in a small pot like this with K9/K8 and SB led at the pot I'd fold.
 
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Seneku

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Yeah, I should force myself to pay some attention to minraises. I have to give them some credit because the people making them might actually be thinking they're making the proper play with their AK.



This is the other part that I missed in this particular hand. The table is 10 Euro max; I got my stack when I stacked 3 other players with Aces. Two of the players were playing with crap, but the one who minraised in this hand had KK so he was actually playing properly getting all his money in preflop.

I think taking one stab is fair enough. If I'm in mid/late position in a small pot like this with K9/K8 and SB led at the pot I'd fold.

Maybe you would fold top pair from middle position, but I think you're one of the 10-20% 10NL players who will (provided that they even played a hand like that from middle position). So if you're going to raise with this hand, it's essentially a bluff, because you'll probably only get called by better hands. So you could either c/f this hand or take a stab and back off when you don't hit your 2 pair, flushdraw or oesd on the turn.
 
NineLions

NineLions

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Maybe you would fold top pair from middle position, but I think you're one of the 10-20% 10NL players who will (provided that they even played a hand like that from middle position).

Fair enough. Actually, I don't know how I would end up in mid/late position with K9, unless it's a limped family pot. The only other times would be at a short table or from late position, in those cases I'd be raising preflop, and not a minraise.


My assumption is that when someone else takes first stab and makes a reasonable bet at the pot, if I have top pair and no other draw I have to have a better than an average kicker. If the pot is small and/or if it's a multiway pot, I'll fold.
 
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