Set with King, against set with Ace. Anything I Can Do?

full tilt poker Game #6017620780: Table Urtima (6 max) - $0.05/$0.10 - No Limit Hold'em - 11:20:53 ET - 2008/04/13
Seat 1: RussiaN Ace 13 ($7.20)
Seat 2: GDFTHR75 ($3.45)
Seat 3: feltnchips ($9.85)
Seat 4: Warmbeer97 ($3.65)
Seat 5: CRAIGER1980 ($8.65)
Seat 6: Im_A_Tomato ($12.05)
Im_A_Tomato has 5 seconds left to act
Im_A_Tomato posts the small blind of $0.05
RussiaN Ace 13 posts the big blind of $0.10
The button is in seat #5
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to RussiaN Ace 13 [5c Kd]
GDFTHR75 calls $0.10
feltnchips folds
Warmbeer97 folds
CRAIGER1980 calls $0.10
Im_A_Tomato calls $0.05
RussiaN Ace 13 checks
*** FLOP *** [9c 5s 5h]
Im_A_Tomato bets $0.30
RussiaN Ace 13 calls $0.30
GDFTHR75 folds
CRAIGER1980 folds
*** TURN *** [9c 5s 5h] [3s]
Im_A_Tomato bets $0.60
RussiaN Ace 13 raises to $1.30
Im_A_Tomato has 15 seconds left to act
Im_A_Tomato raises to $4.90
RussiaN Ace 13 raises to $6.80, and is all in
Im_A_Tomato calls $1.90
RussiaN Ace 13 shows [5c Kd]
Im_A_Tomato shows [5d Ad]
*** RIVER *** [9c 5s 5h 3s] [Tc]
RussiaN Ace 13 shows three of a kind, Fives
Im_A_Tomato shows three of a kind, Fives
Im_A_Tomato wins the pot ($13.15) with three of a kind, Fives
RussiaN Ace 13 is sitting out
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $14.60 | Rake $1.45
Board: [9c 5s 5h 3s Tc]
Seat 1: RussiaN Ace 13 (big blind) showed [5c Kd] and lost with three of a kind, Fives
Seat 2: GDFTHR75 folded on the Flop
Seat 3: feltnchips didn't bet (folded)
Seat 4: Warmbeer97 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 5: CRAIGER1980 (button) folded on the Flop
Seat 6: Im_A_Tomato (small blind) showed [5d Ad] and won ($13.15) with three of a kind, Fives

First of all, you have trips, not a set. To answer your question, there was nothing you can do. You were in trouble right on the flop. It's one of those hands you can get away from unless you have made an incredible read.

well it was kinda obvius that he had a 5... but in this "battle of the blinds"... you never know what he has with that 5... I would have thinked if he hitted that second card (for a full) on the turn where he reraised you from 1.50$ to 4.90$...

Someone had to say it, but why are we playing K5os in EP? I think this call is slightly negative EV, and since you probably complete in the SB often when limped to with cards like this, this -EV play can add up slowly but surely.

Oh, and you go broke in this hand without strong reads.

c9h13no3 said:

Someone had to say it, but why are we playing K5os in EP? I think this call is slightly negative EV, and since you probably complete in the SB often when limped to with cards like this, this -EV play can add up slowly but surely.

Oh, and you go broke in this hand without strong reads.

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He got to see a free flop. Always desirable from the BB with junk hands. He hit the flop huge, with no expectation that anyone other than probably a 54, or 65 would or could hit as well.

Since villain in the small blind only needed a nickel to complete, the only clue available seems to be that sb has an ace or a small pp. That small pp could have been 33, with 99 or TT probably raising from the sb, they will get discounted.

So the clues seems to be, that villain has Ax or 33. that x must be a 5 according to the betting.

My clock ran out while deducing this, so under the pressure of the clock it would take Doyles experience to deduce this quickly and muck his hand , we mere mortals will likely jam this hand every time.

This is a case where you were either way ahead or way behind on the flop. Villain could be betting like this with a 9, any pocket pair, a 5 lower than yours, ... and then he has 2 outs, or he could be doing it A5, 33, ... and then you have one or two outs.

Read https://www.cardschat.com/f49/wa-wb-concept-76525/ from the golden archive.

Therefore, you should have checked called instead of reraising on the turn. With a hard decision if he shoves the river.

This is a case where you were either way ahead or way behind on the flop. Villain could be betting like this with a 9, any pocket pair, a 5 lower than yours, ... and then he has 2 outs, or he could be doing it A5, 33, ... and then you have one or two outs.

Read The WA/WB concept from the golden archive.

Therefore, you should have checked called instead of reraising on the turn. With a hard decision if he shoves the river.

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I dont think this is a wa/wb concept. Without a strong read you should be stacking here every time. Villain could have completed the sb with a lot of other 5x hands. Most people at 10NL will complete the SB no matter what. Not to mention he could be doing this with a pair of 9s or small PP, or even a slowplayed AA or KK. By just check/calling here you are losing a lot of value from single pairs (especially at 10NL where a lot of players will stack with top pair) and lesser 5s. I think you played the hand fine, just a cooler.

bw07507 said:

I dont think this is a wa/wb concept. Without a strong read you should be stacking here every time. Villain could have completed the sb with a lot of other 5x hands. Most people at 10NL will complete the SB no matter what. Not to mention he could be doing this with a pair of 9s or small PP, or even a slowplayed AA or KK. By just check/calling here you are losing a lot of value from single pairs (especially at 10NL where a lot of players will stack with top pair) and lesser 5s. I think you played the hand fine, just a cooler.

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It is wa/wb because the only possible draws have very little outs. I don't play enough 10NL to know whether WA is so much more likely than WB that you want to stack here for value, but you certainly don't need to bet here to price out draws.

The key with the WA/WB concept is that you have a marginal hand that you can't bet for value since you're getting called by worse very rarely. In this instance, we're getting called by worse *constantly*.

He got to see a free flop.

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It wasn't free, it cost 5c. And only flopping trips or two pair is going to make us happy (and even when we flop trips, sometimes we still get felted). This is just such a marginal hand, and we're playing it from the worst position on the board. Thus even when we do flop trips, we usually will have to lead out into the field revealing our hand strength and making it hard to get value. So in short:

1) We have a bad hand that we have to gin the flop with to be happy.
2) When we do nail the flop, we're OOP, so its going to be harder to play it & get max value (or avoid getting coolered).

Therefore, you should have checked called instead of reraising on the turn.

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Valuebetting the turn is absolutely necessary. Only Dolly Parton, 53, and A5 are threats to our hand. Villain will be calling down with two pair hands consistently & value betting the turn is absolutely necessary. Most of villain's range consists of bluff catching type hands (Ace high, pocket pairs, a 3 or 9) and they're going to check behind us if we check.

After being raised on the turn, I think we can just call, since most people at 10$ NL won't be raising without a 5. And at that point, check/calling the river makes the most sense unimproved, because then villain's range becomes any 5 & bluffs. And against other 5's, we're WA/WB, and we want bluffs to bet the river (which the 5's are certainly doing as well). But with Villain only being 72 BB's deep, I don't think we're getting away from this with a different line anyways, because he's shoving the river if we just flat call his raise.

c9h13no3 said:

Valuebetting the turn is absolutely necessary.

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Why? Villain has been betting flop and turn already. Let him bet the river as well if you want value. Reraising the turn means you will not be called by a weaker hand that could fire a third bullet on the river, but you will stack if he has a hand worthy of a call and I don't think flopped trips 2nd kicker are good enough for you to want that. Check calling controls the pot to a proper size here

c9h13no3 said:

It wasn't free, it cost 5c. And only flopping trips or two pair is going to make us happy (and even when we flop trips, sometimes we still get felted). This is just such a marginal hand, and we're playing it from the worst position on the board. Thus even when we do flop trips, we usually will have to lead out into the field revealing our hand strength and making it hard to get value.

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it was free, he was the big blind and checked

Like everyone said.
1. It was trips, not a set.
2. You can't get away from that. Worse 5's, pocket Aces, etc. would stack off here as well. I'd have pushed all my chips in as well.
3. It's too bad you got to see the flop for free. It ended up biting you in the butt. Had you called even from the SB, I'd say you got what you deserved.